TESTIMONY OF GEORGE W. RACKLEY, SR.

The testimony of George W. Rackley, Sr., was taken at 11 a.m., on April 8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BELIN. Mr. Rackley, do you want to stand and raise your right band and be sworn, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. RACKLEY. I do.
Mr. BELIN. You can be seated. Your name is George W. Rackley, Sr.?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where do you live, Mr. Rackley?
Mr. RACKLEY. I live at Ferris.
Mr. BELIN. Texas?
Mr. RACKLEY. Ferris, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. Is that a suburb of Dallas?

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Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Were you raised in Texas?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Born in Texas?
Mr. RACKLEY. No; I was born in Alabama.
Mr. BELIN. Raised in Texas? Go to school here in Texas?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you get through school?
Mr. RACKLEY. Fifth.
Mr. BELIN. Fifth grade?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I went to farming.
Mr. BELIN. You went to farming?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Well, I am from Iowa. We do a lot of farming up there.
Mr. RACKLEY. That is what I do here.
Mr. BELIN. All right, then what did you do?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, at the present I am working for the Coordinated Railroad Co.
Mr. BELIN. For the what?
Mr. RACKLEY. For the Katy. It is a Katy railroad project, but it is a coordinated deal.
Mr. BELIN. What are you doing?
Mr. RACKLEY. I unload trailers.
Mr. BELIN. You unload trailers?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Let me backtrack. How old are you?
Mr. RACKLEY. I am 60.
Mr. BELIN. You said you quit school in the Fifth Grade and went to farming. How long did you farm?
Mr. RACKLEY. I farmed up to 3 years ago.
Mr. BELIN. You farmed up to 3 years ago?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What kind of farming?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I raised cotton and corn.
Mr. BELIN. Then 3 years ago where did you go to work?
Mr. RACKLEY. I went to work here. Well, I have been working off in spare times for about 8 years.
Mr. BELIN. For the same place?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes; same place.
Mr. BELIN. Is that here in Dallas?
Mr. RACKLEY. That is here in Dallas.
Mr. BELIN. Where in Dallas is it?
Mr. RACKLEY. It is on Ross and Market Street, about two blocks from the courthouse.
Mr. BELIN. Now where is it with relation to the corner of Elm and Houston?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, it is on up on Ross. Two blocks north is where our place is.
Mr. BELIN. Your place is two blocks north of the corner of Elm and Houston?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You work indoors or outdoors?
Mr. RACKLEY. Just all over town.
Mr. BELIN. Just all over town?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you working around the noon hour of Friday, November 22, 1963?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I was there at the office.
Mr. BELIN. Were you inside or outside?
Mr. RACKLEY. Our office is just a little small place. Well, just outside, you might say, of it.

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Mr. BELIN. Did you see the President's motorcade at all on that day?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I didn't
Mr. BELIN. Were you standing with anyone there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. With whom?
Mr. RACKLEY. With James Romack. I and him had walked out.
Mr. BELIN. You had walked out?
Mr. RACKLEY. I heard the siren; the parade was coming.
Mr. BELIN. You heard sirens?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir. And I had walked out in front of the place, to where I could get a better view, as a fellow says.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you standing?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well. I had walked out in the truck lot.
Mr. BELIN. In the truck lot?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And was that --
Mr. RACKLEY. You might say would have been in the middle of the street.
Mr. BELIN. Would that have been in the middle of Houston Street?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. In what direction were you facing?
Mr. RACKLEY. Facing south.
Mr. BELIN. All right, did you see the motorcade at all?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. RACKLEY. I didn't practically see anything.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hear any sounds at all?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes. Heard the sounds of the parade.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hear the sounds that sounded like firecrackers or shots at all?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Didn't hear that?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. About how far would you have been from the northeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository when you were standing there?
Mr. RACKLEY. I would say right at a block.
Mr. BELIN. About a block. Do you have any idea about how many feet that is?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I don't
Mr. BELIN. Were you just standing there, or were you walking?
Mr. RACKLEY. I was just standing there.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything happen at all there?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone in the parade?
Mr. RACKLEY. The only thing - I told the guy, he was down there, the only thing that I saw that looked suspicious to me, there was something like a hundred pigeons flew up like you shot into them, and I noticed that, but I never heard no shots.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you see them fly from?
Mr. RACKLEY. From over the top of the building.
Mr. BELIN. Which building? The School Book Depository or over on the other side?
Mr. RACKLEY. The Trinity Building.
Mr. BELIN. Which building did they fly off of?
Mr. RACKLEY. I wasn't looking. I just seen they all flew together.
Mr. BELIN. Did it look like they were flying up from both buildings?
Mr. RACKLEY. Both buildings.
Mr. BELIN. You don't know about when this took place?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. About what time was it that you were looking that way, do you remember, offhand?
Mr. RACKLEY. No; but it was just at the time that the parade was nearing there, I know that.

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Mr. BELIN. Had any of the parade already gone by the corner of Elm and Houston?
Mr. RACKLEY. I couldn't say.
Mr. BELIN. So you don't know whether it did or didn't?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. But would you say it was about that time that the motorcade was to be going by there?
Mr. RACKLEY. It was between 11 and 12.
Mr. BELIN. It was between 11 and 12?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. O'clock?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What time did you - was this before or after you had lunch?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well. I just eat just any time I get a chance.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know accurately what time it was?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. Could it have been as late as 12:30?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. It was before 12:30?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Before 12?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Sometime between 11 and 12?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, it was at the time that, really, that they had shot him, because I was there when the policemen covered the place.
Mr. BELIN. You were there when the policemen covered the place?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. With relation to the time that the policemen covered the place, how many minutes before that did you see the birds fly up?
Mr. RACKLEY. I saw the pigeons there 2 or 3 minutes before that.
Mr. BELIN. Now after you saw the pigeons, you saw the police covering the place?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Within 2 or3 minutes after you saw the pigeons?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any people coming out the back door at all?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. Could you see the back door of the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. That was at the dock they have back there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Were you looking towards that direction?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how long did you keep your eyes fixed over there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Oh, I would say 5 minutes anyhow. Probably 10. I was looking up that way at all times.
Mr. BELIN. Five or 10 minutes, you figure?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any people leave the Texas School Book Depository by way of the rear exit?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any people running north on Houston Street?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you tell your company supervisor that there had been some shooting?
Mr. RACKLEY. No; not right then.
Mr. BELIN. Later did you tell them?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes; I imagine.
Mr. BELIN. You said you stayed there 5 or 10 minutes looking to the south?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do after that?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, when the policemen began to crowd around and they all

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over the place, well then I told him I thought that something had happened over there.
I wasn't expecting anything like that until I just, of course, seen the policemen all out there running back. They came out the back door and the side
Mr. BELIN. did you tell that to that you thought something happened there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Gail George.
Mr. BELIN. Is that your Forman?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. After you said you kept your eyes on this looking south for 5 or 10 minutes, what did you do after that?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I went back to the office.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do after that?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN. During this period of 5 or 10 minutes, did you walk close to the building at all, or just stand there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Just stood out there.
Mr. BELIN. What about Romack? Did he stand with you, or did he walk closer?
Mr. RACKLEY. He walked closer.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can think of, whether I have asked it or not, that in any way might be relevant to this Inquiry?
Mr. RACKLEY. It wasn't a thing that I knew. I didn't really know or expect what was taking place.
Mr. BELIN. Other than the pigeons?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Sir, we thank you for your cooperation. You have a right, if you want, to come back down and read your testimony and sign it, or you can just waive doing that and have the court reporter send it directly to us without your taking another trip down here. You can do It either way.
Mr. RACKLEY. I can sign it now.
Mr. BELIN. You can either waive signing it or else you can come down again and read it and sign it. By waiving, I mean you just let it go, assuming that the court reporter will accurately transcribe it, or you have a right to come In and read it.
Mr. RACKLEY. I will just let it go.
Mr. BELIN. You waive signing it?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. That is all for now.