TESTIMONY OF ROY A. PRYOR

The testimony of Roy A. Pryor was taken at 7:50 p.m., on June 26, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Roy A. Pryor.
Mr. Pryor, my name is Leon Hubert. I am a member of the advisory staff of the general counsel on the President's Commission. Under the provisions of Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and the joint resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the President's Commission in conformance with the Executive order and the joint resolution, I have been authorized to take a sworn deposition from you.
I state to you that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relative to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular as to you, Mr. Pryor, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry and about Jack Ruby and his operations and movements and so forth.
I think you appeared here tonight by virtue of a letter written to you by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, general counsel of the President's Commission, asking you to come here, and I think that letter is dated the 22d of June, is it not? When did you receive it?
Mr. PRYOR. Day before yesterday, which would be the 24th.
Mr. HUBERT. Under the rules adopted by the Commission, every witness is entitled to a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of his deposition, and the rules also provide that a witness may waive that notice if he sees fit to do so, and in the event it should turn out that you have not had the 3-day notice, are you willing to waive it and let your deposition be taken now?
Mr. PRYOR. That's perfectly all right, sir.

554


Mr. HUBERT. You are willing to have your deposition taken?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you stand and I will administer the oath?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give in this matter will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes; I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you state your name?
Mr. PRYOR. Roy Auburn Pryor [spelling] A-u-b-u-r-n.
Mr. HUBERT. Your age?
Mr. PRYOR. I'm 41.
Mr. HUBERT. Your address?
Mr. PRYOR. 8544 Foxwood Lane. The address on the letter was to 2716 Mohave Drive, and since then I have moved.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you state that address again, please?
Mr. PRYOR. 8544 Foxwood Lane.
Mr. HUBERT. That's in Dallas?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation, Mr. Pryor?
Mr. PRYOR. I work as a printer in the composing room of the Dallas Times Herald.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so occupied?
Mr. PRYOR Approximately 3 1/2 years.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you married?
Mr. PRYOR Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your occupation prior to your association with the Dallas Times Herald?
Mr. PRYOR It has been varied. I mean--I have done radio and television promotional advertising and have owned a small printshop of my own. I have worked as a salesman from selling Kirby vacuum cleaners to--and I have then worked as an emcee and a musician, and in comedy.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you known Jack Ruby?
Mr. PRYOR. Since about 1950, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And you met him in connection with his operation of nightclubs?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. At that time you were in the entertainment business?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I handed you when you first came into the room a document consisting of two pages, which I mark for identification as follows, in the right-hand margin: "Dallas, Tex., June 26, 1964, Exhibit No. 1, Deposition of Roy Pryor" and I have signed my name under it, and on the second page I have placed my initials in the lower right-hand corner. This document purports to be a report of an interview of you by FBI Agents Wilkinson and Hardin on December 9, 1963.
Now, have you read this document which I have marked as Exhibit No. 1?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you find that it correctly states your recollection of the interview that was had of you by Agents Wilkison and Hardin ?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And there are no errors in it, I take it?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir--I mean, the exact dates may vary to some degree. I don't recall exactly the basis of the entire thing is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whether it has been customary for Mr. Ruby to come up to the composing room of the Dallas Times Herald frequently to consult in regard to his ads?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I take it that he's one of the few customers who does do so?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir. Jack--when I knew him--now, his condition evidently has changed considerably due to the information that I get from the newspapers, has always been an impulsive sort of a person and it was the idea of being able to present his ad personally, and he liked to associate with people. So, consequently I feel that that was possibly the reason that he would come up to the composing room, and he is one of the very few that I can name that has ever

555


come up there, but he was fairly consistent in his coming to the composing room. Now, what he talked about--he would carry on his conversation with the foreman or the person in charge at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you say he came down there once a week or more often or less often?
Mr. PRYOR. Now, I didn't see him that often, but I am under the impression that he was there possibly two or three times a week--I don't know.
Mr. HUBERT. What shift do you work at the newspaper there ?
Mr. PRYOR. In the evening, sir, from 7:30 until 3. At the time, though----
Mr. HUBERT. At what time you mean in November 1963?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; in November of 1963, the shift, the evening shift started at 6:30 and got off at 2.
Mr. HUBERT. Wasn't there one shift that began or some employees who began work at midnight and worked until 7:30?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you on that shift?
Mr. PRYOR. Art Watherwax, now, he is the lobster--that is the name of the shift--the lobster shift is the midnight shift, and ours, or the one that I worked and still do is the evening shift, and like I say, at that time the shift started at 6:30 and ended at 2 for a normal 7-hour shift. Now, it's from 7:30 until 3. As in the statement, though, to the FBI, I had worked overtime that particular evening.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, let's get to that. I think you state in your statement to the FBI, Exhibit No. 1, that you saw Ruby in the composing room of the Times-Herald on the morning of the 23d at about 4 o'clock?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, that would have been Saturday morning?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. The day after President Kennedy was shot?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us what was the last occasion prior to this time on the 23d that you saw Ruby?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes; now--once again--I can't recall the exact date. It was either a Tuesday or a Wednesday.
Mr. HUBERT. Of that week?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes; of the week before.
Mr. HUBERT. Of the same week?
Mr. PRYOR. Of the week that President Kennedy was assassinated.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, it was either 2 days before or 3 days? Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; I don't recall now exactly. The place that I saw him, though, was in the reception room at radio station KLIF, and at that time I was doing some promotional advertising for the station.
Mr. HUBERT. What time of the day or night was it?
Mr. PRYOR. As best I can remember, it was about 2 o'clock in the afternoon.
Mr. HUBERT. Who did you see him with?
Mr. PRYOR. A little fellow--now, he introduced me, but I forgot his name, but it wasn't Oswald.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't know Oswald, of course, did you?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So when you say it wasn't Oswald, you mean that you are identifying him and are making that statement from pictures of him you have seen?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. But he was someone connected with the station, is that it?
Mr. PRYOR. No; I don't know what connection there was between him and Jack.
Mr. HUBERT. He was with Ruby?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he introduce you to the man?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Does the name "Larry" ring a bell with you?
Mr. PRIOR. I couldn't tell you, sir.

556


Mr. HUBERT. Lavern Crafard?
Mr. PRYOR. No; I can vaguely identify him--it seemed like he had brown wavy hair, and he was shorter than I am and he would be about 5'7", I'd say.
Mr. HUBERT. And what age about?
Mr. PRYOR. In his early thirties I would say.
Mr. HUBERT. How was he dressed?
Mr. PRYOR To the best of my recollection he was in a business suit.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you know that they were together?
Mr. PRYOR. Jack introduced me and we talked in the lobby of radio station KLIF and then we walked down and stood in front of the station.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean--outside?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. On the street?
Mr. PRYOR. Or on the sidewalk, and Lorie he's the station manager for KLIF--Al Lorie.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you spell that ?
Mr. PRYOR. Al [spelling] L-o-r-i-e, I believe it is. I had been in talking with Al and Jack Ruby was sitting in the copyreader's office--I know those guys but I can't recall their names--he was in the office of the man that takes care of the copy.
Mr. HUBERT. Had he finished his business at the time you met him?
Mr. PRYOR. When I walked in to see Mr. Lorie, the door was open into Bob's office and Jack was sitting there and I just waved at him and went on in to see Al, and so when I came out Jack was sitting there.
Mr. HUBERT. He was still sitting at the same place?
Mr. PRYOR. No; he came out.
Mr. HUBERT. So, apparently while you were conducting your business, he was conducting his?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And you both left together
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know who he saw then ? There ?
Mr. PRYOR. The copywriter he was talking to--his name is Bob Clayton.
Mr. HUBERT. Bob Clayton?
Mr. PRYOR. Right; I should have remembered it, but I'm one of the worst on names.
Mr. HUBERT. And you left him on the street?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes
Mr. HUBERT. And the next time you saw him was on the morning of the 23d?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, normally your shift would have been over at 2 o'clock?
Mr. PRYOR. At 2 o'clock; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You state in your interview with the FBI, Exhibit No. 1, that you saw him at about 4 o'clock?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us how you fix that time?
Mr. PRYOR. Well, I had 2 hours overtime, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean that you worked 2 hours overtime that day?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you were about to leave?
Mr. PRYOR. I had already signed my work ticket and was preparing to leave the place.
Mr. HUBERT. So it is that fact which enables you to fix the time that you saw Ruby at 4 o'clock?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he just coming in then ?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was precisely 2 hours after your regular time had finished?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So there can be no doubt about it being 4 o'clock?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did he stay?

557


Mr. PRYOR. That--I don't know, sir, because I left after talking with him for approximately 15 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he speak to you first or who else did he speak to?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes; I was the only one, I presume, that he knew that was at the chapel board, which is in the front of the chapel board, and he just stopped me.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he talk to you about business?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir--just--he was excited and just his usual self. I mean, whenever something out of the ordinary happened, he would become excitable.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you noticed that through the years that you have known him ?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you give us some of the physical manifestations which indicated to you that he was excited?
Mr. PRYOR. One is that he had a newspaper with him, a Times-Herald paper. It was the evening of Friday--the paper, and stated that he had gotten the scoop on his competitors. There were two things that he brought out, and the primary thing, I believe, that he stressed, was the fact that in memorium to President Kennedy, that he had had them change his ad real quick; that his two clubs, the Carousel Club down on Commerce Street and the Vegas Club, which was out on Maple or Oaklawn, he had closed those two for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, he had gotten that announcement into the Friday edition of the Times-Herald, whereas, his competitors had not done so?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So that they were running ads as it were announcing their shows?
Mr. PRYOR. Their shows; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And his announcement announced the closing because of the death of President Kennedy?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he speak of any other thing then?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; I mean--like I say--the fact that it was in memorium, a memorial to President Kennedy, was primary, but secondary then was the fact that he had scooped his competitors, and that was the word that he used "scooped."
Mr. HUBERT. In the sense that he had taken this action and gotten his ad before anybody else had done so?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; he felt that that was something that everybody should have done.
Mr. HUBERT. He seemed to take some personal gratification in it?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he mention having seen Oswald that night, in the course of that night?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he say about that?
Mr. PRYOR. How he was allowed into the pressroom, we didn't go into, but that he by knowing the newspapermen and the officers, police officers, he was allowed to go in where the lineup was. I presume that's where it was.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say that to you?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, he said to you that it was because of his acquaintance and association with the police officers and the news people that he did get into this room?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he indicate to you that he was rather swept along and forced into this room or that he got there because he wanted to be there and used his associations as a means of getting there?
Mr. PRYOR It reverts back, I believe, to the fact that Jack was real impulsive and he happened to be there and they happened to be going in and that seemed like the thing to do. I mean--knowing Jack, if there was any kind of excitement or activity and he had a tendency to big shot.

558


Mr. HUBERT. To play up to big shots, you mean?
Mr. PRYOR. Well--to----
Mr. HUBERT. To pretend to be a big shot or to try to be a big shot?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say why he was in the police station at all?
Mr. PRYOR. It seems like that he had bought some sandwiches and coffee for the officers; I believe that was it.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that what he told you ?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; that he had bought some sandwiches and coffee, and now, who they went to, I don't know, but that was what he said.
Mr. HUBERT. This you know from your own knowledge from him?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You haven't read this in the paper?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he say concerning Oswald?
Mr. PRYOR. Well, that he was allowed to enter the room where Oswald was and that he did get close enough to touch him, and the one thing that I didn't think of it at the time but due to the chain of events that took place, the one thing that he said, was, "He's a little weasel of a guy." I mean--that's his exact words that Jack used.
Mr. HUBERT. When he said that, did he have any particular type of expression or emotion?
Mr. PRYOR. Well----
Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, did his voice carry some suggestion of hatred or revulsion?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; to that degree, although I don't for the life of me believe that Jack had any premeditation of murdering Oswald. I mean--you have to----
Mr. HUBERT. You're talking about the time that you are speaking of, that is to say, on the morning of November 23?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he mention to you that he had made any comment himself in the course of that meeting?
Mr. PRYOR. Only later on--he had mentioned to the District Attorney Henry Wade, who was talking on the telephone to someone, and Mr. Wade had made a statement that Oswald was associated with a Cuban organization and that the organization that he had mentioned was anti-Castro and Jack corrected him and told him it was the organization that was pro-Castro.
Mr. HUBERT. Jack told that to you?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; and that Mr. Wade seemed to be appreciative of that fact, and that he said--Jack's words were, "You see, I'm in good with the district attorney" or something to that effect. I mean, he was trying to impress me with the fact that he was acquainted with Henry Wade.
Mr. HUBERT. And that he had been able to correct him?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; I mean--to know Jack is to realize why he would say things like that.
Mr. HUBERT. Apparently, in correcting Mr. Wade, he pointed out to Mr. Wade that Oswald's committee or group or something was not anti-Castro but pro-Castro, is that so?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; I believe that was it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he indicate in any way how he knew what Oswald's political feelings with respect to the Cuban problem were?
Mr. PRYOR. Well, I think that he had gathered that through the news media, either newspaper, television, radio or--not that he was associated or connected in any way, but I do feel that that was it.
Mr. HUBERT. What I'm trying to get at is this: That Ruby apparently in correcting Mr. Wade, associated Oswald with the pro-Castro group rather than with the anti-Castro group, as Mr. Wade had apparently mistakenly done?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it merely that he was correcting the terminology of Mr. Wade or did you gather that he himself had some knowledge of Oswald's political feelings?

559


Mr. PRYOR. No; my own personal opinion is that Jack was correcting Mr. Wade through what he had read or heard.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, Mr. Wade had used the wrong label for the organization that Wade was talking about and that Jack corrected him and said that that organization is called another thing?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; and that was as far as I could determine, that's the only thing that Jack meant, which was common knowledge then through the news media.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there anything that he said to you on that night or at anytime for that matter, that indicated that he knew of Oswald's political feelings and thoughts?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; outside of possibly what he had learned through the police or through other news media, you know.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you gather from his remark that it was Ruby's opinion that Oswald was a pro-Castro individual rather than either a neutral or an anti-Castro individual?
Mr. PRYOR. Well, just from the comment that he had made in relation to the correction of Mr. Wade, that would be the only time.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you said that Mr. Wade had simply used the wrong label for the pro-Castro group?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And he was simply correcting him as to labels, is that correct?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Were there any telephone calls made that night between Ruby and the composing room or you, that you know of?
Mr. HUBERT. No, sir; not that I know of.
Mr. HUBERT. Your only contact with him was in the 15 minutes you have talked about?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You and he were alone at that time during that 15 minutes?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; there were other people in the chapel, which is at the front of the composing room where you sign your ticket and you sign out.
Mr. HUBERT. Who were some of the people?
Mr. PRYOR. Let me see--I think there was a fellow by the name of Griffin. I believe he was the one that walked out with me, and he'll shoot me for this, but he had walked up--we had washed up in the back and had come up and had made out my ticket and picked up my lunch bucket and was ready to leave when Jack came in off of the elevator and Mr. Griffin and I stopped and so then he went on down, and I couldn't recall whether he even spoke to Jack. Possibly he didn't even know Jack Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you introduce him ?
Mr. PRYOR. Not that I recall.
Mr. HUBERT. What is Mr. Griffin's name--first name?
Mr. PRYOR. I don't know--just Griffin is all I know him by.
Mr. HUBERT. Does he still work there?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did you say he'll hate you for this?
Mr. PRYOR. Because you'll probably contact him and it's----
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you tell us that he did not speak to Ruby at all, is that correct?
Mr. PRYOR. That--I couldn't tell you, sir. The man to my knowledge doesn't know Jack or didn't know Jack.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, in any case, as you met Jack with this man Griffin, you stayed behind and talked to Jack for about 15 minutes and Griffin went on?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Griffin wait for you downstairs?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; he went on.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, in any case, the contact between Ruby and Griffin must have been a matter of seconds, is that correct?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir--if there was--which I don't recall at all.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there any indication that they knew each other?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.

560


Mr. HUBERT. Are you familiar with the famous Weissman ad that appeared in the Dallas Morning News the day the President came to town--a full page ad?
Mr. PRYOR. I'm familiar with the ad, but I couldn't tell you any of the contents, because we had it up on our bulletin board.
Mr. HUBERT. What I want to ask you simply is this: Whether or not Jack Ruby mentioned to you anything concerning that ad during the 15 minutes you spoke to him about 4 o'clock on November 23?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; not that I remember.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he mention the Birch Society?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you familiar with what the Birch Society is?
Mr. PRYOR. I've heard the name. I couldn't tell you one thing about their organization.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not speak with Jack Ruby about it nor he with you?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Ruby seem to link Oswald with any group such as the Weissman ad or the John Birch Society ?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir--I mean--to my recollection there was never any mention of those.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he tell you that he had been to station KLIF and brought sandwiches there too?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; not that evening.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he mention to you that he had secured a telephonic interview of Henry Wade for Glenn Duncan of station KLIF?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What was his general attitude towards the assassination of President Kennedy?
Mr. PRYOR. He was real concerned. Now, this--I remember--he was very much concerned with the fact that, I believe his words were, "Poor Mrs. Kennedy--Jackie and the kids"--the fact that they had lost a husband and father and it was definitely--he was emotional about that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he comment upon what effect or did you have any conversation with him about what effect the assassination might have on business in general in Dallas and in particular, the convention business, upon which his own business depended so heavily?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he seem concerned about how this event might affect his livelihood?
Mr. PRYOR. Not that I recall, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you say that he did seem concerned about the matter from the standpoint of President Kennedy's wife and children, was there any other basis of concern that you could discern from his conversation with you?
Mr. PRYOR. No. I'm--I'm trying to think as to what all took place within the length of time that I talked with him, and he was basicallY, emotionally upset over the thing.
Mr. HUBERT. What physical manifestation did he give of being emotionally upset?
Mr. PRYOR. Shaking the newspaper--I guess is about it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he seem to be angry or talk in a different way or look in a different way or act in any different way than normal?'
Mr. PRYOR. Not with any great degree that I could tell.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he seem to be excessively sorrowful about this?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes--like I say--he did seem real concerned over the fact that the President had been killed, and I think all of us at that time, as well as now--it was-there was a sorrow, and Jack being the emotional type of person that he was, was possibly a little more demonstrative of it. In other words, he would demonstrate and express his emotions more than the average person, I feel.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, your thought is then that his expression of sorrow and so forth and his reaction was somewhat more than the average, at least, as manifested?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.

561


Mr. HUBERT. Did he comment or associate in any way the question of the Jewish race or faith in the assassination?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he indicate in any way to you that he thought that because of the Weissman ad or for any other reason the people of the Jewish race and faith might be blamed for the assassination, directly or indirectly?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. There was no conversation about Judaism or Jews at all?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you present when he took out the twistboard and demonstrated it?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he have it with him when you saw him?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; I don't believe he did. All he had was the newspaper.
Mr. HUBERT. In any case, when you left, he was still there?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And you don't know how long he stayed?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you part with him, what was the general point of departure, how did you leave things with him?
Mr. PRYOR "I'v got to get home, and I'll see you around, Jack" or something to that effect.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him again thereafter?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; until the time that I testified at his trial, outside of seeing him on television.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't have any contact with him by telephone after then?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I think at one time you and he had had a little fisticuffs, hadn't you?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I suppose any feelings about that had long since passed away?
Mr. PRYOR. About 5 minutes after we had our misunderstanding, it was all In fact, there was a grocery store down on the corner, and not that I am or have in the past ever been a fighter or anything, but we had had our set-to and I blacked his eye, and so then he went over there and there was a washstand in the back of the Spur there, and he was washing his face and I walked over to him and told him, I said, "Jack, I'm sorry I'm fighting in your place here and working for you like this, but don't never call me a name like that because I just don't appreciate it", and so he turned around and pop! He hit me right in the eye, you see, and boy! The sparks just flew!
Mr. HUBERT. And you got to fighting again?
Mr. PRYOR. No; that was all, and so both of us had a big ole' shiner, and of course, the guys in the band were up on the bandstand and were looking through the curtain. They heard the commotion and they were just rolling.
Mr. HUBERT. And you were friendly thereafter?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. That was some 13 or 14 years ago, was it?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes; he goes down and buys two great big steaks and both of us are walking around with these steaks on our eyes. I mean--that's the type of person, though, that Jack was.
Mr. HUBERT. He bought a steak for his own eye that you had given him and one for your eye that he had given you?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes; and that is the emotional type of person that Jack--and there has been numerous instances where I have seen him get real excited over some incidental little thing and 2 minutes after whatever created the excitement, he was back running around.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us his attitude toward the girls in his club? Did he take any personal interest in them or was it strictly professional?
Mr. PRYOR. Well, now, on his personal life I couldn't tell you. I mean--I never associated with him to that extent, but I do know that he treated all of the girls that worked for him, as far as I knew, with fairness and also went out of his way to help them.

562


Mr. HUBERT. Did he allow them to make dates out of the club that you know
Mr. PRYOR. Not that I know of, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he prohibit it?
Mr. PRYOR. Once again, I couldn't say. That would come under his business.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I'm asking you because you actually worked there for a considerable period of time, and I wondered what you yourself observed about it?
Mr. PRYOR. I do know that the girls would go with fellows, but it seemed that they were their steadies and dates, you know.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know of any regulation or rule of the house, as it were, that no girl could date a man from the club ?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; I wasn't aware of that, if it did exist.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what his attitude toward the opposite sex-was generally?
Mr. PRYOR He was impressed with them--I'll say that. Whether he was--well, I don't know how to put it, but anyhow--he was engaged, I know, at one time, and I know at the time I started working for him he was engaged to a girl and why they didn't get married, I don't know, but he had gone with her.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever observe any traits which you might classify as homosexual in Jack Ruby ?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; now, he was a peculiar duck, and he's not the type of person that--well, I consider myself a normal individual to a degree, but he was a little rational---
Mr. HUBERT. He was a little "rational" or "irrational"? I didn't catch the word?
Mr. PRYOR. Well, let's see how do I want to put it? Would it be rational?
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I don't know. Apparently you have some doubt in your mind as to the meaning of the word, and perhaps you had better use another word. What did you have in mind? Perhaps you could use another word to describe it? You said he was a peculiar duck and I gather from that that he was a little different from other people?
Mr. PRYOR. Well, maybe it was because he was in that particular type of business that he acted a little different towards women than guys in the band, because musicians are notorious for their
Mr. HUBERT. Interest in the girls at the club, is that what you mean?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir. I'm glad you phrased it that way.
Mr. HUBERT. And he was a little different from that?
Mr. PRYOR. Well, like I say now--due to the fact that he was closer associated with a number of girls that he acted that way or why it was--I couldn't tell you, but when you mentioned--did he have any homosexual tendencies--he had never made any advances to me or to anyone that I knew
Mr. HUBERT. You never observed anything that would indicate any such thing as that at all?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Actually, you have not been an employee there for quite a number of years; isn't that right?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How many exactly--about 8 or 10, I take it?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. But your friendship with him had continued throughout the years?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; he had always treated me good. I mean--as far as a friend you know.
Mr. HUBERT. I know, but I mean after you left his employ as a musician or an artist or entertainer, which I gather was around 1954 or something like that?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you continue to contact him, was it just social?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; I had gone down to the Carousel Club.
Mr. HUBERT. As a customer?
Mr. PRYOR. As a guest, because as a customer, I would pay, but as a guest--whenever I came up, which was very rare, but at different times I had gone up to his club just to catch the floor show and to observe primarily the MC's and listen to their routines. That was the type of work that I had done.

563


Mr. HUBERT. In other words, during the 10 years after you stopped working for him, your connection and your contact with Ruby was on that sort of basis, irregular meetings now and then?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir; I believe it was in 1960 on Christmas Day, he came out to our house and he brought, I believe he had two. dogs, dachshunds, that he was quite fond of, and he came out and ate Christmas dinner, although we had already finished dinner, he came out late, and my wife fixed him a plate and he had turkey and all the trimmings, and he stayed, oh, possibly 45 minutes and seemed to enjoy it, and his dogs--we had a lot of yard and his dogs got out and run and it Just seemed to be relaxation for him, and we enjoyed having him, just as a friend like that.
Mr. HUBERT. Is there anything else you want to say, Mr. Pryor?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir; not that I know of.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, then let me ask you this by was of closing. Of course, neither you nor I met before I saw you tonight?
Mr. PRYOR. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And there was no conversation between us except to introduce ourselves. Otherwise, everything that has passed between us has been recorded by this lady as far as you know, is that correct?
Mr. PRYOR. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir, thank you very much. I appreciate your coming down and' taking your evening hours with this.
Mr. PRYOR. Well, I don't know whether I was any help to you or not, but I appreciate it. For the life of me, I couldn't bring myself to believe that Jack could do something like that, and I still don't believe that he had any premeditated thought about it, that is, a circumstance that allowed this thing to happen and it was just one of those things that's stranger to me than any fiction writer could possibly write.
Mr. HUBERT. Thank you very much. I am certainly glad you came down.
Mr. PRYOR. All right, fine.


Home .. Alphabetical list of witnesses