Frankie Kaiser

TESTIMONY OF FRANKIE KAISER beginning at 6H341...

The testimony of Frankie Kaiser was taken at 2:30 p.m., on April 8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BALL. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn, please?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before the Commission shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. KAISER. I do.
Mr. BALL. Will you give me your name, please?
Mr. KAISER. Frankie Kaiser.
Mr. BALL. What is your address?
Mr. KAISER. 5230 West Ledbetter in Duncanville.
Mr. BALL. What is your occupation?
Mr. KAISER. Warehouse workman at the Texas School Book Depository.
Mr. BALL. How long have you worked for that company?
Mr. KAISER. Oh, just about 2 years.
Mr. BALL. What time do you go to work down there?
Mr. KAISER. Eight o'clock in the morning.
Mr. BALL What date did you go to work for them?
Mr. KAISER. It was August 24, 1962.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go to school?
Mr. KAISER. Texas---Texarkana, Ark.
Mr. BALL. Were you born there?
Mr. KAISER. No, sir; I was born in Omaha, Nebr.
Mr. BALL. And then you went to school in Texarkana, did you?
Mr. KAISER. Right.
Mr. BALL. And what did you do after you got out of school?
Mr. KAISER. I never finished.
Mr. BALL. How far did you go?
Mr. KAISER. I went to the tenth grade and quit and went in the service and went in for 6 months in the National Guards and come out and then came to Dallas and started to work and I worked for Morrises.
Mr. BALL. You worked for whom?
Mr. KAISER. Morris Warehouse.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you do after that?

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Mr. KAISER. I worked there for about 3 years and then I started to work over there.
Mr. BALL. You started to work over at the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. KAISER. Yes--then I got married.
Mr. BALL. You did--what kind of work do you do at the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. KAISER. Drive a truck--fill orders--just about anything that needs to be done.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever know a fellow by the name of Lee Oswald that worked there?
Mr. KAISER. Not personally--I would know him when I would see him.
Mr. BALL. Did you work in the same building with him?
Mr. KAISER. Same building.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when the President's parade went by?
Mr. KAISER. At the Baylor Dental College.
Mr. BALL. Where?
Mr. KAISER. At the Baylor Dental College.
Mr. BALL. Sir, you weren't anywhere near the School Book Depository?
Mr. KAISER. No, sir; I was off Thursday and Friday with abscessed tooth. I was sitting in the chair and when I got off, we was out in the lobby watching it on TV down at the dental college there.
Mr. BALL. When did you go back to work?
Mr. KAISER. It was the following Monday.
Mr. BALL. That would be the 25th, wouldn't it?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir; I believe so--the 25th.
Mr. BALL. Now, one day you found a clipboard, didn't you?
Mr. KAISER. Yes; it was about a week later. I went upstairs, you see, the corner I found it in--we keep a certain teacher's edition of Catholic handbooks.
Mr. BALL. I didn't quite hear that--Catholic what?
Mr. KAISER. We keep our teacher's edition of Catholic "Think and Do" books.
Mr. BALL. I didn't quite hear that--Catholic what?
Mr. KAISER. We keep our teacher's edition of Catholic books--separated.
Mr. BALL. You do?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir; and I went up there to get a teacher's edition.
Mr. BALL. On what floor?
Mr. KAISER. On the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL. Now, what part of the sixth floor is this Catholic edition located?
Mr. KAISER. It was in that corner.
Mr. BALL. And in what corner is that?
Mr. KAISER. Let's see---
Mr. BALL. Without saying north or south, was it near the elevator? Or the stairway?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was right in front of the elevator.
Mr. BALL. Where was it with reference to the stairway?
Mr. KAISER.. It was right next to the stairway--right in the corner.
Mr. BALL. Right in the corner next to the stairway, is that right?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, what day did you find it, do you remember?
Mr. KAISER. I couldn't tell you. It was about a week or a week and a half, somewhere in there.
Mr. BALL. Now, this statement you gave to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on the 2d of December 1963, says you talked to an agent named Pinkston; do you remember that?
Mr. KAISER. Well, I got my boss and the FBI to go upstairs and I showed it to them.
Mr BALL. When you saw the clipboard---
Mr. KAISER. I went downstairs and got my boss.
Mr. BALL. What is his name?
Mr. KAISER. William H. Shelley.
Mr. BALL. And then what happened?

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Mr. KAISER. This FBI was standing there with me--he was standing there then and I told him I had a clipboard laying up there with the orders.
Mr. BALL. Do you think it would have been around December 2?
Mr. KAISER. I couldn't tell you, sir.
Mr. BALL. It was within a week after you went back to work, was it?
Mr. KAISER. To my best knowledge yes, sir---somewhere in there.
Mr. BALL. How did you happen to find the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic edition--teacher's edition.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and I just noticed it laying over there.
Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or 6 inches, something like that.
Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you go up.
Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway down?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner.
Mr. BALL. Did you examine that clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. I didn't .touch it.
Mr. BALL. Did you later touch it?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir; they got me to look at it later on.
Mr. BALL. Did you see it had some orders on it?
Mr. KAISER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And were the orders dated?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What were they dated?
Mr. KAISER. I couldn't tell you, sir.
Mr. BALL. Take a look at this statement which you gave to Mr. Pinkston that day and read it to yourself and see if it refreshes your memory in any way?
Mr. KAISER. (Read statement referred to.)
Mr. BALL. Did you read that?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Does that refresh your memory now as to the orders on the clip-board?
Mr. KAISER. I didn't know the date on the orders--I knew that there was some orders on there--I seen the orders on the clipboard.
Mr. BALL. Did you examine them to determine the date on them ?
Mr. KAISER. Did I examine those orders? No, sir.
Mr. BALL. You didn't examine the orders?
Mr. KAISER. No, sir; I just went down and got my boss and then they took it down.
Mr. BALL. Did you make any notes of the orders?
Mr. KAISER. I didn't, sir.
Mr. BALL. Of either the names on the orders or the date of the orders?
Mr. KAISER. No, sir; now, my boss may have.
Mr. BALL. I think that's all. Did you fill the orders, then, yourself?
Mr. KAISER. No, sir; not them, I didn't.

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Mr. BALL. You turned these over to your boss?
Mr. KAISER. You see, I went down and got them and they went down and got them and they handled them.
Mr. BALL. That's all, Mr. Kaiser, and thanks very much for coming up. This will be written up and you can come down and read it over and sign it if you wish, or you can waive your signature, if you want to, and we can send it on without a signature.
Now, we will mark these pictures we've been talking about here in your deposition as Kaiser Exhibits Nos. A. B, C.
(Marked by reporter as Kaiser Exhibits Nos. A, B, C, for identification.)
Mr. KAISER. Anything else I can do, let me know.
Mr. BALL. Do you want to waive your signature to it?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, I'll waive it.
Mr. BALL. Fine. That's okay.
Mr. KAISER. All right.
TESTIMONY OF FRANKIE KAISER RESUMED
The testimony of Frankie Kaiser was taken at 3:40 p.m, on April 8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, TEA., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BALL. Frankie, we have already taken your deposition and I just wanted to ask you a few more questions and you are still under oath.
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, Frankie, that clipboard you found describe it--what was it?
Mr. KAISER. It was made out of paper and tape and a little piece of pasteboard.
Mr. BALL. Who made it?
Mr. KAISER. I did.
Mr. BALL. When?
Mr. KAISER. Well, right after I started there it had been a long time ago.
Mr. BALL. And how was it you weren't using it on this day?
Mr. KAISER. You see, when he first started there
Mr. BALL. Who is "he"?
Mr. KAISER. Lee---when he first started to work there he got my clipboard and started using it.
Mr. BALL. Did you give it to him to use?
Mr. KAISER. No, he just picked it up and started using it and I just went and made me another one.
Mr. BALL. You recognized that clipboard when you saw it?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, because my name was all over it.
Mr. BALL. Your name was on it, too?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You put your name "Frankie Kaiser" on it?
Mr. KAISER. You see, it don't do no good to get a clipboard around here everybody is always running off with it.
Mr. BALL. That's the reason you put your name on it?
Mr. KAISER. He come up and got it and started using it and I just let him keep it and made me another one.
Mr. BALL. Now, here is a picture which is marked in a group of pictures as No. 36, but which I will mark as Exhibit A to your deposition.
(Instrument marked by the reporter as Kaiser Exhibit A, for identification.)
Mr. BALL. Does this show the place where the clipboard was found, or do you know?
Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found there--it was found on the floor.
Mr. BALL. Where on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. Behind these cartons--between there and the wall.
Mr. BALL. Behind which cartons?
Mr. KAISER. Right in here (indicating).

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Mr. BALL. Which cartons--it was found behind--are the cartons in the picture--it wasn't found where it is circled there?
Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found where it circled--there--it was found on the floor.
Mr. BALL. Put a big "X" on the carton behind which it was found.
Mr. KAISER. I'll put it on this one---it was found between that and the wall. (Witness placed "X" on the pictures requested by Counsel Ball.)
Mr. BALL. You have marked an "X" on the carton--between that carton and the wall the clipboard was found.
Mr. KAISER. Yes, between these row of cartons right over there.
Mr. BALL. Now, did you later find clothing?
Mr. KAISER. I just found the coat there---I didn't even know it was his until somebody told me it was. I thought they were kidding.
Mr. BALL. This is Commission Exhibit 163--do you recognize that blue jacket?
Mr. KAISER. That's the one I found.
Mr. BALL. Where did you find it--tell me first.
Mr. KAISER. It was in the window sill.
Mr. BALL. In what room?
Mr. KAISER. In the domino room.
Mr. BALL. Now, I show you a picture, No. 17, this is marked---does this show the window?
Mr. KAISER. Right down in here.
Mr. BALL. There is a Jacket showing in that window, is that where the jacket was found?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir; but it was laying behind this in the window.
Mr. BALL. It wasn't found in the position of the jacket shown in the picture?
Mr. KAISER. No; it sure wasn't.
Mr. BALL. But was it the same window?
Mr. KAISER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And the window sill is shown there too?
Mr. KAISER. Yes; it is.
Mr. BALL. I show you a picture which is marked Exhibit 18, does this show the place where the jacket was found?
Mr. KAISER. Right over in here.
Mr. BALL. Where--put an "X" there---it's in the window sill?
Mr. KAISER. Right.
(Marked diagram with an "X". )
Mr. BALL. There is an Exhibit 17, which shows the corner of the domino room and the window and it is marked as Exhibit B and the picture marked No. 18, which shows the window sill, bearing an "X" placed there by the witness, and is marked as Exhibit "C". Will you initial that "C" please?
Mr. KAISER. ( Initialed instrument as requested. )
Mr. BALL. That's "FK".
I believe we are through, now, Frankie, thank you very much.
Mr. KAISER. That's all right.
Mr. BALL. You'll waive this signature too?
Mr. KAISER. Yes.
(Instruments marked by the reporter as Kaiser Exhibits B and C, for identification.)