TESTIMONY OF BOBBY G. PATTERSON
The testimony of Bobby G. Patterson was taken at 4:07 p.m., on April 14, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr.., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Bobby G. Patterson.
Mr. Patterson, my name is Leon Hubert. I am a member of the advisory staff of the general counsel of the President's Commission.
Under the provisions of Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, joint resolution of Congress 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the Commission, in conformance with the Executive order and the joint resolution, I have been authorized to take a sworn deposition from you, Mr. Patterson.
I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular as to you, Mr. Patterson, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald, and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry, including what you know about what Jack Ruby might have had to do with it.
Mr. Patterson, I think you have appeared here by virtue of an individual request made to you to appear here was that by a letter?
Mr. PATTERSON. By a letter.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that letter addressed to you by J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel of the Commission--when did you receive it?
Mr. PATTERSON. Monday.
Mr. HUBERT. Yesterday?
Mr. PATTERSON. Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. Sunday.
Mr. PATTERSON. I came back Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you have any objection to testifying now?
Mr. PATTERSON. No.
Mr. HUBERT. The reason I say that is that under the rules of the Commission a person is supposed to have a 3-day notice. before they can be required to testify,
334
but the rules also provide that you can waive it if you want to. If you are willing to testify and waive the 3 days notice, we can go ahead.
Mr. PATTERSON. I am as willing as he is.
Mr. HUBERT. All right; would you stand up and raise your fight hand and I will administer the oath.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you state your name, please, sir?
Mr. PATTERSON. Bobby G. Patterson.
Mr. HUBERT. How old are you, sir?
Mr. PATTERSON. Thirty-three.
Mr. HUBERT. And what is your residence?
Mr. PATTERSON. Mesquite, Tex., 3463 Caracas [spelling] C-a-r-a-c-a-s.
Mr. HUBERT. Your occupation is what?
Mr. PATTERSON. Patrolman, Dallas Police Department.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been on the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. PATTERSON. Oh, about 5 1/2 years.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you do before that?
Mr. PATTERSON. I worked for American Beauty Flour Co. down here on South Ervay.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Patterson, I have shown you a document which for the purpose of identification I have marked in the fight margin the words, "Dallas, Tex., April 14, 1964, Exhibit 5311, Patrolman Bobby G. Patterson," and I have put my name on it, and since it contains a second page, I have put my initials at the bottom of the second page, and I ask you if you have read that document?
Mr. PATTERSON. I have.
Mr. HUBERT. That purports to be a report of an interview of you made by Special Agents Horror and Propst [spelling] P-r-o-p-s-t, on November 30, 1963, does it not; is that correct?
Mr. PATTERSON. I believe it is --I wouldn't say for sure----it was on Saturday, I believe I don't know when it was.
Mr. HUBERT. In any case, I ask you if you think that this report identified as Exhibit 5311 is a fair report of the interview that you had with the FBI agents?
Mr. PATTERSON. It is a fair report.
Mr. HUBERT. Is there anything that you would like to add or delete or modify with respect to Exhibit 5311?
Mr. PATTERSON. No, that's just about it, As far as the time, now, I don't know about some of the time in my report and every report and stuff like that--I don't know if that makes any difference or not. That is as near as I could get it.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, let me ask you this--you say you are not sure about the times that are stated in this report, Exhibit 5311. I take it that you weren't sure really at the time that they interviewed you; is that correct?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes--you know, the correct time?
Mr. HUBERT. Well, of course, I note that where this exhibit does mention time, it says "about."
Mr. PATTERSON. Well, that's what I put it, "about."
Mr. HUBERT. You did not know Ruby at all?
Mr. PATTERSON. I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. And you were at the top of the Commerce Street ramp?
Mr. PATTERSON. The ramp; yes, .sir.
Mr. HUBERT. From about 9:30 on--you never left it?
Mr. PATTERSON. I never left
Mr. HUBERT. As far as you know, no one unidentified was there?
Mr. PATTERSON. No one without proper identification.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us what you understood was meant by "proper identifcation"?
Mr. PATTERSON. Well, he said not to let no one in except police and reporters unless they had proper identification.
Mr. HUBERT. You said they told you--who was that?
335
Mr. PATTERSON. The sergeant.
Mr. HUBERT. Sergeant Dean?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, of course, with respect to police, I guess their uniform would establish their identity?
Mr. PATTERSON. No, they have a regular identification.
Mr. HUBERT. And you were instructed to have them show their official identification?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You did so?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What about the identification of newsmen?
Mr. PATTERSON. Well, the best I could tell, they pulled out all the identification---part of them had pictures of who they worked for, where they lived, some of them didn't have nothing, some of them had stickers and I had to turn one of them back--I did--he come up there in a WRR truck and got out of it but didn't have no identification and he had to go back and get some.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, as far as you were concerned, you were not satisfied if a man just simply had a badge on saying "press"?
Mr. PATTERSON. No.
Mr. HUBERT. You went further and required something that would satisfy you?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes---anybody can pick up a press badge.
Mr. HUBERT. And you actually tuned back some people who claimed to be the press, but you weren't satisfied with their identification?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you require a picture?
Mr. PATTERSON. Some of them had pictures and some of them didn't--some of them had where they lived--on down further who they worked for and what press--and they had cameras on.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, if they had that sort of thing, you figured that that was proper?
Mr. PATTERSON. Well, it's proper identification--you know half of them didn't know they were supposed to have the pictures. Of course, I don't guess the chief or anybody notified them to have pictures like they did down at the county.
Mr. HUBERT. But you considered that the identification you required as to newsmen, when they didn't have a picture, would be such as would satisfy you in normal police work in identifying anybody?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Driver's license and things of that sort?
Mr. PATTERSON. Well, sometimes I would have them show me their driver's license and that on top of their identification too, to make sure that was the same person.
Mr. HUBERT. So, you stayed in that position I guess from about 9:30 until actually
Mr. PATTERSON. Almost 12 o'clock, I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. After the killing--after the ambulance went through?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you been given any instructions as to how the transfer was to take place?
Mr. PATTERSON. All they told me was that he would be transferred by armored car and for me to stay on the right side of it---of the armored car---as it was being backed in, and I stayed there.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I have previously handed you another document which I have marked for identification by writing on the margin as follows: "Dallas, Texas, April 14, 1964, Exhibit 5312, Deposition of Patrolman Bobby G. Patter- son," and I have signed my name below. Now, I show you that document?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You have seen it and have read it?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes.
336
Mr. HUBERT. You consider that it is correct and states the truth?
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you have any modifications or adjustments?
Mr. PATTERSON. It is about as true as I could get it.
Mr. HUBERT. No deletions or anything to add?
Mr. PATTERSON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know a man by the name of Larry Crafard?
Mr. PATTERSON. Who?
Mr. HUBERT. Larry Crafard or Curtis Laverne Crafard?
Mr. PATTERSON. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you have a telephone, sir
Mr. PATTERSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your telephone number, please
Mr. PATTERSON. Broadway 9-0394.
Mr. HUBERT. HOW long have you had that number?
Mr. PATTERSON. Oh, about--almost a year.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you familiar at all with the telephone number WH-2-5326?
Mr. PATTERSON. No, sir; I never heard tell of
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a man by the name of Robert Carl Patterson, also known as Bobby Patterson?
Mr. PATTERSON. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Your middle initial is "G" and that stands for what?
Mr. PATTERSON. Gene [spelling] G-e-n-e.
Mr. HUBERT. So that you are not a person by the name of Robert Carl Patterson?
Mr. PATTERSON. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever lived at 902 East Waco Street, Dallas?
Mr. PATTERSON. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Patterson, I am going to show you a page in an exhibit which has been re-marked, "Dallas, Texas, April 14, 1964, Exhibit 5308, Deposition of Andrew Armstrong," on which I have signed my name, and that same group of pages has also been marked Crafard Exhibit No. 5205, in connection with the testimony of another witness? On one of the pages thereof, I show you the number "WH-2-5326, Bobby [spoiling] B-o-b-b-y Patterson." Is that your handwriting?
Mr. PATTERSON. It isn't mine no.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know anything about that at all?
Mr. PATTERSON. I sure don't--I haven't heard tell of that number.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you been interviewed previous to this time by any member of the Commission's staff?
Mr. PATTERSON. I never have.
Mr. HUBERT. Thank you; that's all.
Mr. PATTERSON. Okay.