TESTIMONY OF C. E. HULSE
The testimony of C. E. Hulse was taken at 4:30 p.m., on April 1, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Officer C. E. Hulse. Mr. Hulse, my name is Leon Hubert, and I am a member of the advisory staff of the General Counsel of the President's Commission. Under the provisions of the Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, the Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the Commission in conformance with this joint resolution and the Executive order, I have been authorized to take the sworn deposition of you. I state to you that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular to you, Mr. Hulse, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine the facts that you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent
facts you may know about the general inquiry, and more particularly, about your actions with respect to putting the radio call on the air and so forth.
Now, you have appeared here by virtue of a general request made by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel of the Commission. Under the rules adopted by the Commission, you are normally entitled to a 3-day written notice before you are required to testify, but the rules also provide you can waive that notice if you wish to do so. So, I ask you now if you are willing to waive the 3-day notice that you would normally be entitled to?
Mr. HULSE. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you rise, and raise your right hand so as to be sworn. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that will be given in this matter will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. HULSE. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you state your name, please.
Mr. HULSE. C.E. Hulse.
Mr. HUBERT. Your age?
Mr. HULSE. Thirty-one.
Mr. HUBERT. Where do you live, sir?
Mr. HULSE. 7825 Gayglen.
Mr. HUBERT. Dallas?
Mr. HULSE. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation, sir?
Mr. HULSE. Policeman, city of Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so employed?
Mr. HULSE. Six years.
Mr. HUBERT. On November 24, 1963, were you on duty?
Mr. HULSE. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. HUBERT. What were your specific duties on that day?
Mr. HULSE. Radio dispatcher.
Mr. HUBERT. What does that mean that you do?
Mr. HULSE. Dispatch all calls in the city of Dallas which come through on the telephone lines.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you mean that you can get into radio communication with moving vehicles and other places through special channels?
Mr. HULSE. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. What channel were you using, do you remember?
Mr. HULSE. Using channel 1.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know Mrs. Frances Cason?
Mr. HULSE. Yes, I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Who is she?
Mr. HULSE. She is a telephone operator for the city of Dallas Police Department.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I invite you to look at the document before you which has been marked for identification as: "Dallas, Texas, April 1, 1964. Exhibit 5135, deposition of Frances Cason and C. E. Hulse," and ask you whether or not you have signed it?
Mr. HULSE. Yes, I have.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, would you tell us what part you played with reference to the activities reflected by Exhibit 5135?
Mr. HULSE. I dispatched this shooting call to 118, and also dispatched the same call to ambulance 605, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, can you recall how you got the information, or where you got the information as to the shooting of Oswald?
Mr. HULSE. To the best of my knowledge, I don't remember who told me that that he had been shot. Some other officer, or some other telephone clerk in the dispatcher's office told me that he had been shot.
Mr. HUBERT. Is it possible that Mrs. Cason----
Mr. HULSE. It is quite possible that she did.
Mr. HUBERT. How would she do it? Were you in the same office with her?
Mr. HULSE. No, now, I was in another office which is divided by a plate glass, but we also have an intercom system and it is quite possible she told me through the intercom system that Oswald had been shot.
Mr. HUBERT. When you heard that, what did you do?
Mr. HULSE. I knew that she had already ordered an ambulance. I knew 605 had just cleared from a previous call. Best I can remember I asked her what ambulance was going, what ambulance had been ordered and she told me 607.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. HULSE. I knew that 605 would probably be closer to the basement, and I disregarded 607, and ordered 605 on the air.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, now, how did you know that 605 was nearby?
Mr. HULSE. When he heard the call come out on the shooting in the basement, the best I can remember, he told me he was probably closer to the basement than 607.
Mr. HUBERT. That is to say that you were in radio communication with 605?
Mr. HULSE. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Ambulance 605?
Mr. HULSE. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And he heard the call for ambulance 607?
Mr. HULSE. I am not positive whether he heard---no, he never did dispatch 607 at all. It was handled through the telephone by Mrs. Cason, but he knew that there was an ambulance needed for this shooting victim, and he told me he would probably be closer.
Mr. HUBERT. Than the other?
Mr. HULSE. Than any ambulance. I'm not sure whether he said that he would be closer than 607, but he said closer to the basement than any other ambulance.
Mr. HUBERT. Isn't it a fact that you had heard ambulance 605, on channel 1, announcing to his own company just shortly before this all happened that he was clear and that you remembered that he was clear and was going back towards his company?
Mr. HULSE. Yes; that is correct. He had just cleared from a previous call, and was en route back to the company, which I presume he would be in the immediate downtown vicinity.
Mr. HUBERT. And isn't that the reason why you then, realized that 605 had just cleared, as you had heard him clear over your radio, and you realized that he was closer, and that is why you called 605?
Mr. HULSE. Yes; plus that he told me that he would probably be closer himself, on the radio.
Mr. HUBERT. I would like you to look at Exhibit 5135 and tell us what portion of that card is written in your hand?
Mr. HULSE. Just the squad number, which I first dispatched to squad 108. He was on another assignment, so I dispatched it then to 118.
Mr. HUBERT. So, that the column, or block which there is printed the word, "Squad assigned is 108," and it appears to be scratched out and immediately above it is "118," is that right?
Mr. HULSE. Yes; that's correct.
Mr. HUBERT. All in your handwriting?
Mr. HULSE. All that.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I notice that there is printed on that card by what apparently is a timeclock two figures, "time dispatched C-11:22, November 24," would you explain what you had to do with that, if anything?
Mr. HULSE. The time dispatched, the time that it is explained here, 11:22, November 24, is the time that I actually dispatched the call to 108, and then finding out he was on another assignment, I dispatched it also to 118.
Mr. HUBERT. Below there there is a block called, "time clear, 1:49 p.m., November 24," would you explain that, please?
Mr. HULSE. That is the time that squad 118 cleared from the assignment.
Mr. HUBERT. And they advised you of that and you put the card in the timeclock, is that right?
Mr. HULSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, this Exhibit 5135, was actually prepared by Mrs. Cason, was it not?
Mr. HULSE. Yes; it was.
Mr. HUBERT. And she would have had it stamped in this box called "Ambulance ordered," and "time received," isn't that right?
Mr. HULSE. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. Then after she made up the card and had it stamped, how did it get to you?
Mr. HULSE. It is put on a conveyer belt that runs from one room to the radio room, this conveyor belt, and fails into a box, and I pick it up.
Mr. HUBERT. And your--you have your own timeclock there?
Mr. HULSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So, as soon as you have done what you said you did, you slip it into a stamp machine and it automatically stamps the time?
Mr. HULSE. That's correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I notice that there is an initial in the column right next to the figure "118," "M J," which Mrs. Cason advises was put there by her. Do you know who that refers to?
Mr. HULSE. Yes, sir; the other officer that was working on the radio with me. In this--"MJ" M. J. Jackson, his initials, M. J.
Mr. HUBERT. But, as a matter of fact you handled it?
Mr. HULSE. Yes; I actually handled the dispatching of the call and the ambulance.
Mr. HUBERT. Why didn't he do it?
Mr. HULSE. Well, at that time Mr. Jackson was fairly new to the radio dispatcher's office and everything was in such a turmoil there I decided that I would handle all transmissions made on the radio, seeing that he was new to the office and didn't know quite how to handle the calls under the conditions.
Mr. HUBERT. And in any case, you distinctly remember handling the call which is reflected by this Exhibit 5135?
Mr. HULSE. Yes; I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, Officer Hulse, we had an interview now, you and I, did we not, immediately before the beginning of this deposition?
Mr. HULSE. Yes; we did.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you recall anything that was covered in that interview which has not been covered in this deposition?
Mr. HULSE. No; I couldn't. I believe all has been covered.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you think of any inconsistencies between what was developed in the course of the interview and what was developed in the course of the deposition?
Mr. HULSE. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you any other comments that you would like to make concerning this matter of any nature whatsoever?
Mr. HULSE. No, sir; I have told everything I know about it.
Mr. HUBERT. Thank you, sir.