Testimony Of Carlos Bringuier
The testimony of Carlos Bringuier was taken on April 7-8, 1964, at the Old Civil
Courts Building, Royal and Conti Streets, New Orleans, La., by Mr. Wesley J.
Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Carlos Bringuier, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am a member of the legal staff of the
President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy.
Staff members have been authorized to take testimony of witnesses, including
you, by the Commission, pursuant to authority granted to the Commission by
Executive Order No. 11130 dated November 29, 1963, and joint resolution of
Congress No. 137.
I understand that Mr. Rankin wrote to you last week, stating that I would
contact you in connection with the taking of your testimony. I understand that
he sent with his letter a copy of the Executive order and resolution to which I
have just referred as well as a copy of the rules of procedure of the Commission
relating to the taking of testimony of witnesses. Did you receive Mr. Rankin's
Yes, sir; I received it.
And you received copies of the documents that I have referred to?
That is right. I received.
The Commission is interested in learning from you, Mr. Bringuier, about the
contact that you had with Lee Harvey Oswald while he was present in New Orleans
in the summer and early fall of 1963. Before we get into the details of that
testimony, however, will you state your full name for the record.
What is your address, Mr. Bringuier?
Excuse me one moment. May I explain to you? In Cuba we use a long name with
a lot of middle names. Do you want the whole middle name too?
No; I think that is enough.
It is enough? O.K.
Where do you live?
I live in 501 Adele Street, Apartment F.
Here in New Orleans?
Here in New Orleans.
Where were you born?
I was born in Havana, June 22, 1934.
How long did you live in Havana?
Well, I was living in Havana until May 4, 1960. I left Havana to Guatemala
and Argentina, and I came to the States in February 8, 1961.
You came then to New Orleans, is that correct?
That day I arrived to Miami, Florida, and I was in Miami for 10 days, and I
came to New Orleans in February 18, 1961.
Have you been here in New Orleans ever since?
That is right.
You are a Cuban national, is that correct?
That is correct.
Are you presently employed?
What do you do?
Well, I am a salesman, retail clothing store with the name of Casa Roca, 107
Decatur Street. I am a salesman and manager of the store.
How long have you been so employed?
I started to work in that store in October 1, 1962.
Had you been employed here in New Orleans prior to that time?
Yes, sir; I was working for 1 year in Ward's Discount House, 708 Canal
You worked there as a salesman also?
As a salesman also.
What is your educational background?
Well, I was attorney in Cuba and assistant secretary for the criminal court
in Havana. I got my degree in 1957.
Your degree in what field?
That is right.
So you then were trained as a lawyer in Cuba----
Prior to the time that Castro came to power? Is that correct?
That is correct.
And did you actually practice law in Cuba?
Not actually, no. I didn't practice law, because I was working, as I told
you, in the criminal court, and in Havana, in Cuba, when you was employee of the
criminal court, you could not practice law.
Did you become a member of the bar in Cuba or do some act that is similar of
becoming a member of the bar here in the United States?
No; I didn't do any act to become here in United States member of bar.
But in Cuba?
In Cuba, yes.
You actually were a member of the bar in Cuba?
That is right.
It is my understanding that you have been active in the Anti-Castro Movement
here in New Orleans. Is that correct?
That is correct.
Am I correct in understanding that you left Cuba because of your feeling
against the Castro regime and your opposition to that regime?
That is correct. I did not believe in it, I did not agree with the Communist
regime in Cuba.
As a result, you left Cuba and came to the United States? Is that
That is correct.
Has your family joined you here in the United States?
Well, when I went to Argentina, I went with my wife and the three kids at
that moment, and after I came to the United States alone, and 2 months later
they met me here in the States. I want to explain that I am not in the States as
a Cuban refugee but as an immigrant, as a resident.
And as an immigrant from Cuba, or from some other ------
From Cuba [producing document].
You have shown me an identification card from the Department of Immigration
and Naturalization, indicating that you were admitted to the United States as an
immigrant on February 8, 1961. Is that correct?
That is correct.
(Document returned to witness.)
[Exhibiting photograph to witness.]
I am correct in understanding, am I not, that you have been involved to one
degree or another in Anti-Castro activities here in New Orleans since your
Yes, sir; soon after I arrived here to New Orleans, I founded a Newsletter
for the Cubans with the name of Crusada. That was my first work here in New
Orleans. After that I joined, at the beginning of 1962, the New Orleans
Delegation of the Cuban Revolutionary Council, and I was working as Secretary of
Publicity and Propaganda here in New Orleans for the Cuban Anti-Castro. That
was, I believe, June or July--June 1962. After that, I resigned, and in July
1962 I was designated New Orleans delegate of the Cuban Student Directorate, and
I am in that position from that time to now.
Did there come a time when you met Lee Harvey Oswald?
I beg your pardon?
Did there come a time when you met Lee Harvey Oswald?
Tell us when that was and the circumstances of the event.
Well, the first day that I saw Lee Harvey Oswald was on August 5, 1963, but
before we go deeper in this matter about Oswald, I think that I would like to
explain to you two things that I think will facilitate the Commission to
understand my feeling at that moment.
That is perfectly all right. Go ahead.
And you see, in August 24, 1962, my organization, the Cuban Student
Directorate, carry on a shelling of Havana, and a few days later when person
from the FBI contacted me here in New Orleans--his name was Warren C. de Brueys.
Mr. de Brueys was talking to me in the Thompson Cafeteria. At that moment I was
the only one from the Cuban Student Directorate here in the city, and he was
asking to me about my activities here in the city, and when I told him that I
was the only one, he didn't believe that, and he advised me and I quote, "We
could infiltrate your organization and find out what you are doing here." My
answer to him was, "Well, you will have to infiltrate myself, because I am the
only one." And I want to put this out, because after that some part of the press
or some persons now are trying to use to tell that maybe Oswald was a man from
the FBI or the CIA. I will go into that later on.
After that, after my conversation with de Brueys, I always was waiting that
maybe someone will come to infiltrate my organization from the FBI, because I
already was told by one of the FBI agent that they will try to infiltrate my
Next thing is this: On August 2, 1963, I receive in my store--I have over there
the office of the delegation too, the visit of two Cubans, who told me that they
had already desert from one Anti-Castro training camp that was across Lake
Pontchartrain here in New Orleans. Until that moment I did not know nothing
about that Anti-Castro training camp here in the city, and they told me that
that Anti-Castro training camp was a branch of the Christian Democratic
Movement--that is another Anti-Castro organization-- and they told me that they
had the fear inside the training camp that there was a Castro agent inside that
A few days before, too, the police found here in New Orleans about 1 mile from
that training camp a big lot of ammunition and weapons and all those things, and
when Oswald came to me on August 5 I had inside myself the feeling, well, maybe
this is from the FBI, or maybe this is a Communist, because the FBI already had
told me that maybe they will infiltrate my organization, but that feeling--I
only had that feeling on August 5, because 4 days later I was convinced that
Oswald was not an FBI agent and that he was a Pro-Castro agent.
When I told that to the press after the assassination, I saw in some magazines
that I was not sure if he was an FBI or not, and that is not the truth, because
on August 9, 3 months before the assassination, I was sure that he was a
Pro-Castro and not an FBI. I want to have that clear.
To summarize your statement, when Oswald came to see you on August 5----
That is right.
You were suspicious of him on two different counts?
That is right.
One, that he might possibly have been an infiltrator working for the
That is right.
And you were worried about this because of what Agent de Brueys had said to
A year ago.
Almost a year prior to that time?
You were also concerned about the possibility that Oswald might have been a
Communist or a Castro agent of some sort, who was trying to infiltrate your
organization on behalf of that group?
That is right. Now that day, on August 5, I was talking in the store with
one young American--the name of him is Philip Geraci--and 5 minutes later Mr.
Oswald came inside the store. He start to look around, several articles, and he
show interest in my conversation with Geraci. I was explaining to Geraci that
our fight is a fight of Cubans and that he was too young, that if he want to
distribute literature against Castro, I would give him the literature but not
admit him to the fight.
At that moment also he start to agree with I, Oswald start to agree with my
point of view and he show real interest in the fight against Castro. He told me
that he was against Castro and that he was against communism. He told me--he
asked me first for some English literature against Castro, and I gave him some
copies of the Cuban report printed by the Cuban Student Directorate.
After that, Oswald told me that he had been in the Marine Corps and that he had
training in guerrilla warfare and that he was willing to train Cubans to fight
against Castro. Even more, he told me that he was willing to go himself to fight
against Castro. That was on August 5.
I turned down his offer. I told him that I don't have nothing to do with
military activities, that my only duties here in New Orleans are propaganda and
information and not military activities. That was my answer to him.
He insisted, and he told me that he will bring to me next day one book as a
present, as a gift to me, to train Cubans to fight against Castro.
Before he left----
Was Geraci present throughout this entire conversation?
Was Mr. Geraci present throughout this entire conversation that you had with
I think so, yes, sir; yes, sir.
Was there a Mr. Blalock there?
Blalock, B-l-a-l-o-c-k. Do you remember him?
Well, there was another young boy. What was his name did you say?
I could not tell you, because I don't remember the name of the other boy who
was there, but I think that I saw him just one time in my life. Geraci was with
another person over there, another young boy, and----
Did Oswald mention during this conversation that he could easily derail a
train, for example, by securing and fastening a chain around the railroad track?
Do you remember him mentioning something like that?
Well, you see; I do not exactly remember all the details, because we were
talking for about--I believe about 1 hour, something like that, and at that
moment I didn't know what was going to happen and I didn't pay too much
attention to all the things that was being telling over there, but the result of
the conversation were this that I am telling to you. Maybe he mentioned that. I
could not tell to you that he mentioned that, because I am not--I don't
remember. He could have mentioned that, because he was talking about the
experience that he had in guerrilla warfare in the Marine Corps.
Before he left the store, he put his hand in the pocket and he offered me
How much did he offer you?
Well, I don't know. As soon as he put the hand in the pocket and he told me,
"Well, at least let me contribute to your group with some money," at that
moment I didn't have the permit from the city hall here in New Orleans to
collect money in the city, and I told him that I could not accept his money, and
I told him that if he want to contribute to our group, he could send the money
directly to the headquarters in Miami, because they had the authorization over
there in Miami, and I gave him the number of the post office box of the
organization in Miami.
And after that, I left the store, because I had to go to the bank to make the
deposit, and Oswald was in the store talking to my brother-in-law--that is my
partner in the store---Rolando Pelaez.
Is that P-e-l-a-e-z?
That is right. Oswald was talking to him for about half an hour, and later
on when I came back from the bank I asked to my brother-in-law, "Well, what do
you think about this guy who was here?"
Did he tell you his name was Lee Oswald?
Yes; he told me that his name was Lee Oswald, and he told me one address in
Magazine Street, but I didn't remember at that moment the number, and when I
asked to my brother-in-law that, he told me that Oswald looked like really a
smart person and really interested in the fight against communism, and he gave
to my brother a good impression, and I told my brother that I could not trust
him, because I didn't know what was inside of me, but I had some feeling that I
could not trust him. I told that to my brother that day. Next day, on August 6,
Oswald came back to the store, but I was not in the store at that moment, and he
left with my brother-in-law a Guidebook for Marines for me with the name "L. H.
Oswald" in the top of the first page. When I came back to the store, my
brother-in-law gave to me the Guidebook for Marines. I was looking in the
Guidebook for Marines. I found interest in it and I keep it, and later--I forgot
about that just for 3 days more--on August 9 I was coming back to the store at
ock in the afternoon, and one friend of mine with the name of Celso Hernandez
came to me and told me that in Canal Street there was a young man carrying a
sign telling "Viva Fidel" in Spanish, and some other thing about Cuba, but my
friend don't speak nothing in English, and the only thing that he understood was
the "Viva Fidel" in Spanish. He told me that he was blaming the person in
Spanish, but that the person maybe didn't understood what he was telling to him
and he came to me to let me know what was going on over there.
At that moment was in the store another Cuban with the name of Miguel Cruz, and
we went all three with a big sign that I have in the store in color. The sign is
the Statue of Liberty with a knife in the back, and the hand, knifing her in
the back, has the initials of the Soviet Union, and it said, "Danger. Only 90
Miles from the United States Cuba Lies in Chains." We pick up the sign and we
went to Canal Street to find the guy.
We were walking all Canal Street to Rampart Street, but we could not find him.
We were asking to different people in the street, but nobody saw him, nobody
told us, Yes, I saw him, or, He went to this side. I decided to get a Canal
streetcar to search for him, and we went in the Canal streetcar until about the
2700 block of Canal Street, and we came back in the Canal streetcar, but we
could not find him at that moment.
I went back to the store, but just 3 or 4 minutes later one of my two friends,
Miguel Cruz, came back running and told me that the guy was another time in
Canal Street and that Celso was watching him over there.
I went over there with the sign another time, and I was surprised when I
recognized that the guy with the sign hanging on the chest, said, "Viva Fidel"
and "Hands off Cuba," was Lee Harvey Oswald. Until that moment I only knew
Oswald as a guy who was offering his service to train Cubans, and when I saw
that he was with a sign defending Fidel Castro and praising Fidel Castro, I
became angry. That was in the 700 block of Canal Street just in front of the
store where I was working my first year here in New Orleans.
Was that the International Trade Mart?
No; Ward Discount House. He make another appearance in the International
Trade Mart, later, and I will go into that, too.
When I saw that was Oswald and he recognized me, he was also surprised, but just
for a few seconds. Immediately he smiled to me and he offered the hand to shake
hands with me. I became more angry and I start to tell him that he don't have
any face to do that, with what face he was doing that, because he had just came
to me 4 days ago offering me his service and that he was a Castro agent, and I
start to blame him in the street.
That was a Friday around 3 o'clock at this moment, and many people start to
gather around us to see what was going on over there. I start to explain to the
people what Oswald did to me, because I wanted to move the American people
against him, not to take the fight for myself as a Cuban but to move the
American people to fight him, and I told them that that was a Castro agent, that
he was a pro-Communist, and that he was trying to do to them exactly what he
did to us in Cuba, kill them and send their children to the execution wall.
Those were my phrases at the moment.
The people in the street became angry and-they started to shout to him,
"Traitor! Communist! Go to Cuba! Kill him!" and some other phrases that I do not
know if I could tell in the record.
You mean they cursed at him, they swore at him?
That is right, some bad phrases, bad words.
And at that moment, one of the Americans push him by one arm. One policeman
came. When policeman came to me and asked me to keep walking and to let Oswald
distribute his literature that he was handing out--he was handing out yellow
leaflets of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, New Orleans Chapter--and I told to
the policeman that I was Cuban, I explained to him what Oswald did to me, and I
told him that I don't know if was against the law, but that I will not leave
that place until Oswald left and that I will make some trouble.
The policeman left, I believe going to some place to call the headquarters, and
at one moment my friend Celso took the literature from Oswald, the yellow
sheets, and broke it and threw it on the air. There were a lot of yellow sheets
flying. And I was more angry, and I went near Oswald to hit him. I took my
glasses off and I went near to him to hit him, but when he sensed my intention,
he put his arm down as an X, like this here (demonstrating).
He crossed his arms in front of him?
That is right, put his face and told me, "O.K. Carlos, if you want to hit
me, hit me."
At that moment, that made me to reaction that he was trying to appear as a
martyr if I will hit him, and I decide not to hit him, and just a few seconds
later arrive two police cars, and one of the policeman over there was Lieutenant
Gaillot, G-a-i-l-l-o-t. They put Oswald and my two friends in one of the police
cars, and I went with Lieutenant Gaillot in the other police car to the First
District of Police here in New Orleans.
When we were in the First District of Police, we were in the same room, one
small room over there, and some of the policemen start to question Oswald if he
was a Communist, what he was doing that, and all those things, and Oswald at
that moment--that was in front of myself--was really cold blood. He was
answering the questions that he would like to answer, and he was not nervous, he
was not out of control, he was confident in himself at that moment over
One of the questions that they asked to him was about his organization, the Fair
Play for Cuba, and I saw him showing some papers that--I believe they were the
credentials of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, that the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee is a national organization, and when he told that, he was so kind of
proud that it was not a small group but a national group all over the United
States, and they asked of him the name of the members. No. Excuse me. Before
they asked him if he has any office. He told them no, that there were--they were
holding the meetings in different house, different homes, different members of
the organization one night in one house, another night in another house, but in
front of me he didn't told nothing about any office. When they asked him about
the name of the members, he answered that he could not tell the name of the
members in front of myself, because he will not like to let me know who were the
ones who were helping him here in the city, and at that moment the police came
out of the room and that was the last time that I saw him that day.
Did the police keep you in jail too?
Well, yes. I had to put--they took my fingerprints and my picture, and I
have to put $25 bond that night with my two friends too, and I don't know, but
after the assassination I heard that Oswald didn't put the $25 bond, that
somebody went to the First District and make--I believe you call that an
affidavit or something like that, and he will appear in court and he will not
have to put the $25. He didn't put the $25 bond. That is what I heard. I didn't
saw that. I am not sure of that. Next time that I saw him----
Did you appear in court later?
Yes, sir; later. That was August 12.
Yes, on Monday.
And you pleaded not guilty to the offense that you were charged with?
That is right; that is right. And he plead guilty.
Oswald was there in court?
And you saw him in court?
And that is what you were just about to tell me?
In August 12, we appear in the second municipal court in New Orleans. I came
first with my friends, and there were some other Cubans over there, and I saw
when Oswald came inside the court. I saw him. He went directly to sit down in
the middle of the seat of the colored people. See, here in the court you have
two sides, one for the white people and one for the colored people, and he
walked directly inside of the colored people and he sat directly among them in
the middle, and that made me to be angry too, because I saw that he was trying
to win the colored people for his side. When he will appear in the court, he
will defend Fidel Castro, he will defend the Fair Play for Cuba, and the colored
people will feel good for him, and that is a tremendous work of propaganda for
his cause. That is one of the things that made me to think that he was a really
smart guy and not a nut.
When the judge call us, he plead guilty, I plead not guilty, and my friends
plead not guilty. I brought the Marines guidebook, the guidebook for Marines,
and I explain to the judge that the incident was originated when Oswald tried to
infiltrate the organization and that if he will not do that, I will not have
any fight with him in the street, and I showed to him the guidebook for Marines
with the name of Oswald on the top of the first page, and the judge dismisses
the charges against us and fined him $10.
Fined Oswald $10?
Ten dollars, that is right. In the court was at that moment one cameraman
from WDSU, and he make he did an interview to Oswald after the trial and he took
some movies of ourselves, and later I receive one phone call from Bill Stuckey.
I had talk to Stuckey the day of the trial in the morning. I met him in the
bank and I explained to him what was going on in the second municipal court, and
he was the one who send the reporter over there to the trial. I am not sure if
was the same day or next day of the trial Stuckey called me asking for Oswald's
address. I get the affidavit from the court dissertation, and I give to him the
address in dissertation, and I asked him why he was looking for that. He told me
that he was going to make an interview to Oswald. I disagreed with him at that
moment, I told him that I was thinking that it was not good to let a Communist
go to radio station and tell all his lies, because there are many people who
understand what was happening in Cuba, but there are many people who do n
ot know exactly what is happening in Cuba. Stuckey offered me to make another
interview to me next Saturday in his program, but I didn't agree with that
neither, and I asked him to arrange a radio debate, because in that way we could
tell our point of view at the same moment in the same place.
On August 16 another friend of mine left to me a message in the store that
Oswald was another time handing out pro-Castro propaganda for the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee, this time in front of the International Trade Mart here in New
I wasn't in the store at that moment, and when I came back and I received the
message, I went to the International Trade Mart, but I could not find Oswald, he
had already left, and I was talking later on with my friend, and the
information that I received was that he was over there with two other persons.
Later I saw the picture of those two persons, and they have a Latin aspect. I do
not know if they are Latin Americans or not, but at least there is one who
Did somebody show you pictures of these individuals?
The Secret Service tried to see if I know them, if I could identify
[Exhibiting photograph to witness.] I show you a picture, which has
previously been marked as "Pizzo Exhibit 458--A," and I ask you if that is one
of the pictures or a picture like the one the Secret Service showed to you.
[Exhibiting photograph to witness.] I show you another picture, which has
previously been marked "Pizzo Exhibit 453-B."
[Indicating.] See this guy, see this Japanese? He is from the Kasuga Co.
here in New Orleans. He had the office in International Trade Mart.
And you pointed to the person standing immediately behind and to Oswald's
right with his hands up behind his head?
[Demonstrating.] That is right.
And that is on Exhibit 453-A. Now do you recognize the person with the "X"
over his head?
Yes, sir; that was Lee Harvey Oswald.
Now there is a person standing to Oswald's left wearing a white shirt and
facing the same direction that Oswald was facing, and I will indicate that
person with a pen mark on the picture. [Marking photograph.] I have drawn an
arrow pointing to the person to which I refer, and I ask you if you recognize
No; I don't recognize him. I believe that this is one of the pictures that I
saw before, but I don't recognize him. For me, he looked like as a Latin
Now in the far foreground of this picture, there is a man who has been
marked with a green mark, just one mark, and we are referring at this point to
Exhibit 453-A. Do you recognize that person?
Is that another one of the individuals to which you referred as having a
Latin-type complexion, or is it not?
No, sir. I believe no; this is not the one that I said.
I have one other picture here of this scene which has not previously been
marked, and I will show that picture to you and ask you if you can identify
anybody in that picture with the exception of Oswald, of course.
(The wittness complied.)
The only one that I could recognize here is Oswald.
And he is the person with the "Hands Off Cuba"?
"Hands Off Cuba" leaflets in his hand, the first one in front, just in the
middle of the picture.
[Marking photograph.] I have marked the picture I just referred to as
"Exhibit No. 1" to your deposition.
Do you want that I sign the picture?
Yes. Would you initial the picture for identification purposes?
(Discussion off the record.)
You want that I sign these too?
No. We have identified those as Pizzo Exhibits 453-A and 453-B, and you have
noted that they are----
I thought you mentioned that there were two different people that appeared
to you to be Latin people.
Sure. This one that I see here [indicating], this is the one looked like to
me a Latin, but, if I am not wrong, somebody showed me another picture where is
another guy distributing the leaflets. I believe so.
Do you think that was a Secret Service man or an FBI agent? Do you know?
I think that was a Secret Service man. Maybe I am wrong. I saw those days a
lot of pictures; but--let me tell you something else: If my opinion is not
wrong, if I am not mistaken this moment, I think that the other man was maybe in
some kind of Bermuda shorts or something like that.
I don't have any pictures in my possession showing that. The Commission has
requested the actual film, the TV film itself, to be delivered to will send you
a picture of it.
And I will also speak to the Secret Service about it and see if we can find
such a picture. According to The Secret Service, one of these gentlemen has been
identified as Mr. Charles Hall Steele, Jr.
He was working in the Pap's Super Market here in New Orleans. I believe so,
that he was working over there. There was one Cuban who, when saw his face in
the television, called me to tell me that, and I called the Secret Service and
let them know.
Mr. Steele will be in the office here this afternoon, so we will have an
opportunity to determine if it is the same man that was marked with the arrow in
Pizzo Exhibit 453-A or not.
So you went over to the International Trade Mart on this day in an attempt to
find Oswald, but you were not successful? Is that correct?
That is correct. After that my friend showed to me one of the leaflets that
Oswald was handing out in front of the International Trade Mart, the yellow
leaflets, and I found something interesting at this point. There was a
difference among the leaflets that he was handing out on August 16 in the
International Trade Mart and the leaflets that he was handing out on Canal
Street on August 9.
What was the difference?
The leaflet he was handing out on Canal Street August 9 didn't have his name
of Oswald, at least the ones that I saw. They have the name A. J. Hidell, and
one post office box here in New Orleans and the address, and the leaflets that
he was handing out on August 16 have the name L. H. Oswald, 4907 Magazine
Street. In the yellow leaflets he was offering free literature and lectures, and
he was asking to the people to join the New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee, and at the end he said, "Everyone welcome." My friend asked
to me if I think that it would be good that he will go to Oswald's house posing
as a pro-Castro and try to get as much information as possible from Oswald. I
told him yes; and that night he went to Oswald's house with the leaflets.
What day was this now? Do you remember?
August 16. I believe so. I think that. I am sure.
That was the same day that----
That he was distributing the leaflets.
The second time?
The second time. The first time was a Friday, August 9, and the second time
I think that was another Friday, August 16.
My friend went to Oswald's house and he was talking to Oswald for about 1 hour
inside his house, in the porch of the house, and there was when we found that
Oswald had some connection with Russia, or something like that, because the
daughter came to the porch and Oswald spoke to her in Russian, and my friend
heard that language and he asked Oswald if that was Russian, and Oswald told him
yes, that he was attending Tulane University and that he was studying language,
that that was the reason why he speak Russian. He give to my friend an
application to become a member of the New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for
After the assassination my friend turned [over] to the Secret Service one copy
of the application. I have here one, one copy [producing document]. This is a
photocopy. My friend keep the original.
Do you have another copy of this?
No; that is the only one that I have. He has the original. If you want to
keep that, for me it is no trouble, because always I could take more copies.
I see. Your friend still has the original?
The original; that is right.
Well, let's mark this one as "Exhibit 2" to your deposition. Off the
[The witness complied.]
Let the record show that we asked Mr. Bringuier to initial a picture which
we discussed before on the record, and that picture, which is a picture of a
street scene in front of the International Trade Mart has been marked "Exhibit
1" to Mr. Bringuier's deposition taken here in New Orleans on April 7, 1964. We
shall now mark as "Exhibit 2" to that deposition a photocopy of an application
to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, New Orleans, La., which Mr. Bringuier says
is a copy of an application which was given to a friend of his whose name we
have agreed not to indicate on the record, given by Lee Oswald on or about
August 16, 1963. Is that correct?
I have initialed Exhibit No. 2 and I ask you to do the same, if you
[The witness complied.]
Please go ahead.
At that conversation Oswald was defending Fidel Castro, and he advised to my
friend that the United States don't have the right to invade or to overthrow
any other government, and that if the United States will do that to Cuba, he
will fight defending Castro, because Castro was right.
I gave the copy of the transcription of the conversation with my friend to the
Secret Service the days after the Kennedy assassination.
That is the day that you and your friend discussed this after your friend
returned from Oswald's and you made a recording of that conversation?
Not a recording, not a recording exactly; but when my friend came back from
Oswald's house, he told me what happened over there and he was trying to contact
some authority to let him go deeper inside the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
here in New Orleans.
Your friend was?
Yes; my friend was trying to contact some authorities, because he didn't
want to be involved in that matter without the knowledge of the U.S. Government.
We also discussed this conversation in front of Ed Butler.
"Ed Butler, Edward Butler, for the Information Council of the Americas, the
day or 2 days previous to the debate when my friend and myself went to Butler's
office, and my friend was explaining to Butler all the conversation and the
point of view of Oswald, and the matter that Oswald spoke in Russian, and at
that moment my friend had found that Oswald had been in Russia and that he was
married to one Russian girl. We gave all that information to Butler and he was
trying to contact some person, somebody in Washington, to get more the
background of Oswald before the debate.
After that, the last day that I saw Oswald was August 21, the day of the debate.
I went to WDSU radio about 5:30, 30 minutes before the time of the debate. When
I went to the lobby, there were already there Bill Stuckey and Lee Harvey
Oswald. I shake hands with Stuckey. Stuckey indicate to me that Oswald was
there. Oswald stand up and came to me and shake hands with me. I was talking to
Stuckey for a few minutes, and after that Stuckey left the lobby and went inside
the WDSU radio station to check--I believe that was to check in what room we
will have the debate. I was talking to Oswald that day before the debate
started. I was trying to be as friendly to him as I could. I really believe that
the best thing that I could do is to get one Communist out of the Communist
Party and put him to work against communism, because he know what communism
mean, and I told to Oswald that I don't have nothing against him in the personal
way, just in the ideologic way. I told him that for me it was impossible to see
can being a Communist, because communism is trying to destroy the United States,
and that if any moment when he will be at bed he will start to think that he
can do something good for his country, for his family, and for himself, he could
come to me, because I would receive him, because I repeat to him I didn't have
nothing against him in the personal way. He smiled to me. He told me he answered
me that he was in the right side, the correct side, and that I was in the wrong
side, and that he was doing his best. That were his words at that moment.
Before we went inside the room of the debate, he saw my guidebook for Marines
that I was carrying with me, because I did not know what will happen in the
debate and I will have to have that weapon with me to destroy him personally as
a traitor if he doing something wrong in the debate. When he saw the guidebook
for Marines, he smiled to me, and he told me, "Well, listen, Carlos, don't try
to do an invasion with that guidebook for Marines, because that is an old one
and that will be a failure." That was his joke in that moment. After that we
went to the debate, and I think that you have the whole history of the debate,
you have the transcription and everything, [so] that I don't have to go inside
that, because that is subjective, not objective. You have the objective, and
that is the debate.
That is right. We do have a transcript and we listened to it on the tape
last night over at the television station too.
And there is something that I want to show you too. I told to you about the
training camp that were across the Lake Pontchartrain.
[Producing newspaper.] At the beginning of August in the Diario Las Americas
from Miami for September 4---
For September 4, 1963?
That is right. [Indicating photograph.] This is the spy who was inside the
training camp. The Christian Democratic Movement turned him over to the FBI, and
the FBI was questioning him in Miami. The Christian Democratic Movement found a
letter, according to this information, from this guy directed to Carlos
Lechuga, former Cuban Ambassador to Mexico and now Cuban Ambassador to the
United Nations in New York. In that letter the spy, Fernando Fernandez, was
warning Lechuga that they have to be alert from that date to August 8, and the
day that Oswald came trying to infiltrate my organization was on August 5. This
sounds for me strange in all this matter.
[Indicating.] Here is another interview from Fernandez here 3 days later.
You are referring to a copy of the same newspaper but for the date of
September 6, 1963, on the front page of which----
[Indicating.] Here. "Fernando Fernandez is in favor of coexistence with the
Communist regime of Castro." That is the title in Spanish.
Let me see if I can understand what you are saying. You say that Fernandez
wrote a letter to Lechuga?
Fernandez wrote a letter to Lechuga in Mexico.
Lechuga is a member of the Castro government?
He is now Ambassador to the United Nations?
In New York; right.
Fernandez is the person who was the Castro spy who had infiltrated the
training camp in Louisiana?
For the Christian Democratic Movement here in Louisiana.
Now the Christian Democratic Movement is--what? Pro-Castro?
It is an anti-Castro organization?
Yes; they were training Cubans over here to make a commando action against
Castro, but they find out that there was a Castro spy inside the training camp,
and they went back to Miami with the people and with him, and they turn him over
to the FBI. I think that after that the leader for the Christian Democratic
Movement---or that the FBI didn't found nothing, because was not against the law
to spy inside an anti-Castro organization. It was against the law to spy inside
the U.S. Government but not inside the anti-Castro organization. And my
feeling--and, this is the question that I am asking myself--in New Orleans we
are about 900 miles from Miami. In Miami is where the headquarters of all the
anti-Castro groups. I could not find any reason for Oswald to come to me and
offer me his service to train Cubans in guerrilla warfare at the same moment
when there was a secret anti-Castro training camp in New Orleans and a Castro
spy was inside that training camp. That for me is--because, if he was willing to
rate one active organization, he will go directly to Miami and he will offer his
service over there in Miami, but not in New Orleans where it is not publicly
known that there was something going on at that moment. I believe that that was
the only time here in New Orleans that there was something like that, and it was
a coincidence. And there is another coincidence too for me, and that is that
when Oswald left the city he went to Mexico, and the letter from Fernandez that
was intercepted here was to Mexico too, and Oswald visit the Cuban consulate in
Mexico, and the Fernandez letter was to the Cuban Ambassador to Mexico. For me,
that is a big doubt.
You see, after the debate, the same night of the debate, I went to the radio
station here in New Orleans and the local papers and the United Press
International office, and I gave a press release. If you want a copy, I could
give you a copy. I gave a copy to the Secret Service.
The most interesting thing is the four things that I asked to the Secret Service
of New Orleans. I think that this is the second one where I said, "Write to
your Congressman asking for a full investigation of Mr. Lee H. Oswald, a
confessed Marxist" [producing document]. And that was 3 months before the
Do you have another copy of this?
I have the original of that. You can have that.
I have marked a copy of the press release distributed to the various
communications media here in New Orleans, on August 16, 1963----
No, August 21.
August 21, 1963?
August 21, the night of the debate.
I mark it as "Exhibit No. 3" to your deposition, and I have initialed it.
Would you initial it?
(Discussion off the record.)
Let me go over some of this testimony that you have just given to see if I
understand. Mr. Fernandez wrote to Mr. Lechuga a letter in which Fernandez said
that we--meaning the Castro people?
Must be on guard up until August 8?
August 8, that is right.
That is right.
You indicated that Oswald had come to your store or offices on August 5,
That is right.
Oswald came to you offering to assist in the military training of
That is right.
At that time, there was, in fact, a training camp near New Orleans----
That is right.
For the training of people for military action against Castro?
And that was not public knowledge at that time?
That is right.
So you are tying this up in your mind by considering the possibility that
Oswald was, in fact, a Castro agent?
That is right.
And did know about the existence of this training camp, because Mr.
Fernandez had already himself infiltrated that training camp?
That is right.
And that Fernandez had told Oswald about the existence of this camp and had
asked Oswald himself to try to infiltrate that camp for your organization?
Is that correct?
Well, the only thing that I don't believe is that Fernandez had told
directly to Oswald. What I believe is that Fernandez had informed some people
outside the United States, and these people had informed Oswald and had gave to
Oswald the order to try to infiltrate the Cuban group here in New Orleans.
And Mr. Fernandez was, on this theory, aware of that and was aware of
approximately the time Oswald would make this attempt, and, therefore, indicated
to Lechuga that there would be some danger of Oswald being discovered as an
I beg pardon? I don't understand the words.
As I understand, part of the hypothesis here, the theory, relates to the
fact that Fernandez said to Lechuga, "We must be careful, or we will be in
danger,"--up until about August 8. Now does that statement have anything to do
Well, what I think is this: He send that letter to Lechuga, and on August 5
Oswald came to me offering his service to train Cubans, all in the same period
of time. Something that never was happening here in New Orleans, that there was
a secret anti-Castro training camp, and the chairman of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee trying to join the Cuban group here in New Orleans. Those are the
facts. I don't want to tell something that I am not sure about. I just want to
show you that tremendous coincidence or that connection.
Now it doesn't seem likely, does it, that Oswald would go around handing out
literature in the streets like he did if he was actually attempting to
infiltrate the anti-Castro movement?
Remember that that was after I turned down his offer and after I told him
that I don't have nothing to do with military activities and that here there is
nothing, and that I turned down completely him. He didn't went openly to do that
before the attempt to infiltrate the training camp; he went openly to do that
after he was turned down.
Do you know of any conceivable association between anybody in the pro-Castro
movement and Oswald that could have acted as a source of information to
Oswald---conducted the orders to him?
Would you have any way of obtaining information of that sort as a result of
your anti-Castro activities and contacts? If there were such a person as this,
do you think you would be likely to know about it?
Beg your pardon?
If there were such a person, that is to say, some agent of the Castro
movement who had been working with Oswald, do you think that you would have had
access to that information or you would have been likely to find out about
You see, that is a hard question, because here in the city you have a lot of
persons. There are some who are pro-Castro, there are many who are anti-Castro.
Even among the Cubans you could have some Castro agents here in the city and
you could not have control of everybody.
But there is something else: The owner of the Havana Bar--the Havana Bar is
located in 117 Decatur Street, just two door or three door from my store--the
owner of the Havana Bar is a Cuban, and he and one of the employees over there,
gave the information to me after Kennedy's assassination--not before that Oswald
went to the Havana Bar one time. He asked for some lemonade. He was with one
Mexican at that moment, and when Oswald was drinking the lemonade, he start to
say that, sure, the owner of that place had to be a Cuban capitalistic, and that
he argue about the price of the lemonade. He was telling that that was too much
for a lemonade, and he feel bad at that moment, Oswald feel bad at that
moment--he had some vomits and he went out to the sidewalk to vomit outside on
the sidewalk. These persons here from the Havana Bar told me that the guy, the
Mexican, who was with Oswald, was the same one that one time the FBI told them
that if they will see him, call them immediately because that was a
I remember that was between August 15 and August 30 was that period of time. I
could not locate that because I start to find out all these things after the
Kennedy assassination, not before, because before I did not found any
connection. They did not told nothing of this before to me. Between the 15th and
the 30th the brother of the owner of the Havana Bar came to my store asking me
to call the FBI, because he already saw one automobile passing by the street
with two Mexicans, one of them the one who had been with Oswald in the bar, and
he told me that the FBI, one agent from the FBI, had been in the bar and told
them that if they will see those two guy to call them. This person, the brother
of the owner of the bar, he gave to me at that moment the number of the plate of
the automobile, but he didn't get from what State. I called the FBI, because
this person don"t know to speak English. That was the reason why he came to me.
I talked to the person in the FBI. I explained what was going on, but looked
s person on the telephone didn't know nothing about that matter and he took
the--I believe that he took the notes of what I was telling to him, and that was
When did this happen, before the assassination or after?
I called before the assassination, but I didn't know that that was any
connection with Oswald, because they didn't told me at the Havana Bar that one
of them was the one that was with Oswald in the Havana Bar, and learn that
Oswald was one day over there with one Mexican, the brother of the owner told
me, "Yes. You remember those two Mexicans? One of them was the one who was with
Oswald in the bar."
Now, tell me approximately when you called the FBI about this.
Well, that was between the 15th of August and the 30th of August, because
that was when the owner of the Havana Bar was on vacation. The brother was the
one who was at the front of the business at that moment, and we figure that the
owner of the Havana Bar went on vacation from August 15 to August 30 and that
had to happen in that period of time.
As I understand it, some time between August 15 and August 30 the brother of
the owner of the Havana Bar told you that he had seen a man that had been
formerly identified to him by the FBI, and the FBI had asked this man, the
brother of the owner of the bar, to notify them if he saw this man?
And he had seen this man together with another man driving in an automobile
somewhere here in New Orleans? Is that correct?
But the question is this: The FBI was according to the information that the
brother of the owner of the Havana Bar told me, the FBI was looking for both
men, not for one.
For both of them?
For both of them, but just one of them was in the Havana Bar with Oswald,
What is the name of the brother of the owner of the Havana Bar?
Ruperto Pena, and the one who saw Oswald in the bar--that was the one who
served the lemonade to him--Evaristo Rodriguez.
Did you report this to the FBI when you talked to them after the
After the assassination?
I report this to the Secret Service. I believe so. [Producing document.] I
have here a copy of the letter that I send to the headquarters on November 27,
1963, informing here to the headquarters the information that I gave to the
Secret Service about the man who was working in the Pap's Supermarket, that he
was going to Delgado Trades School, I believe with the name of Charles, and I
have here that I gave to the Secret Service this information during that
May I see that? [Document exhibited to counsel.]
It is in Spanish?
Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
You have given me a draft of a document entitled "Open Letter to People of
New Orleans," which I have marked "Exhibit No. 4" to your deposition taken here
in New Orleans on April 7, 1964, and I have initialed it in the lower right hand
corner. Would you initial it, please?
[Complying.] And you agree to send me back the original?
Yes. I will take this and have a copy made, and I will send the original
back to you. I have your address on my copy here of Mr. Rankin's letter, which
is 107 Decatur Street, New Orleans, La. Is that correct?
That is correct. That is my store. You can send the mail to there.
Correct. Now "Exhibit No. 4," as I understand it, is a draft of a letter
that you proposed to distribute here in New Orleans some time after the debate
that you had with Oswald on August 21, 1963. Is that correct?
That is correct.
It, in fact, was never distributed because you----
I went to the city hall, and they informed me I think the person that
informed me maybe I am wrong--is Mr. Diboll--I had that name here wrote on the
back---and he gave to me the information that it had to be 3 1/2 by 5 1/2 and
this was not possible to distribute in that size, and I decided not to
But you prepared this some time during August in 1963?
That is right, that is right.
That was done prior to the assassination?
That is right. Do you have any information from Oswald going to Cuba?
You mean--has it ever appeared that Oswald actually went to Cuba? Not as far
as I know.
Well [producing magazine], there is here in this magazine this is Bohemia
International--this is printed in Venezuela--February 2, 1964 there is an
article by Dr. Herminio Portell-Vila. He is a professor of history of Cuba, Dr.
Herminio Portell-Vila, and an old diplomat from Cuba. I think he is living in
Washington, D.C. And he said here [exhibiting page] that in one speech from
Castro on November 27, 1963, in the University of Havana, Castro said--and I
quote: "The first time that Oswald was in Cuba"--and that immediately he cut the
speech, he changed and he talked of something else. Maybe you have a record of
that speech delivered from Castro in the University of Havana and you could
check if Castro said that 5 days after the assassination or not.
And what kind of magazine is this Bohemia International?
Bohemia was the biggest weekly magazine in Cuba.
Prior to the Castro regime?
That is right. And during the Castro regime they were defending Castro a lot
of time, but in 1960 the director, the editor, went into exile, and----
And he now publishes this magazine from Venezuela?
That is right. He was publishing that from New York about one year, I
believe, sir, and then at a later date moved to Venezuela, but that is
circulating here inside the United States.
You have referred to an issue of that magazine of February 2, 1964, and to
an article that begins on page 16. What is the title of the article?
Disfraz. That is mask, costume. That says "change of----
Change of costume?
And this is an article about Lee Oswald and the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee. Is that correct?
That is correct.
And the caption under the picture of Lee Oswald, as it appears on page 17,
reads what in English? Would you translate that for us?
"When Castro in his speech of November 27, 1963, at the University of Havana
said literally that the first time that Oswald was in Cuba,' he went out of his
tongue, that is literally, under the influence of cognac---Peralta, that is a
brand of cognac--'he told something that is really important'"
That is what it says?
That is what it says here, and if you want to take the name of the person
who wrote it----
Yes. The article was written by----
I don't know if you have a copy of----
Off the record.
(At this point, Mr. Jenner entered the room to obtain photographs, and there
ensued an off the record discussion about the photographs.)
Do you want to put that on the record, that story you told me just a minute
Last January I went to Miami, Fla., where I was talking to Dr. Emilio
Nunez-Portuondo, former Cuban Ambassador to the United Nations, and he told me
that just after the assassination of President Kennedy he received a request
from one of the biggest Mexican newspapers asking him for some public
declarations of opinion about the assassination. He sent that day a letter with
his press release inside, addressed to one friend of him who is living in Mexico
City and his friend deliver that press release to the Mexico City newspaper in
Mexico. In that release, Mr. Nunez-Portuondo blamed Fidel Castro as the
"intellectual murderer of President Kennedy."
Dr. Portuondo told me that the same day that that information appear in the
paper, his friend suffer an attempt to be kidnaped. There went about eight men
to this man house, and when they were trying to put him inside one automobile,
at the same moment pass a reporter---I believe that was from the AP--and when
the reporter saw what was going on, he start to ask for help. At that moment the
police came and started to question the eight men, and, according to
Nunez-Portuondo, they identified themselves as members of the Secret Service of
the Mexican Government, and Mr. Portuondo's friend was beaten so hard that he
had to go to a hospital for 4 days with a broken leg, just because he was the
one who deliver Nunez-Portuondo's statement to the Mexican newspaper blaming
Fidel Castro for the murder of President Kennedy.
I want to go back briefly to the letter from Fernandez to Lechuga which you
indicated had been intercepted.
What letter is this and who intercepted it?
Well, I believe that that letter was intercepted here in New Orleans when
Fernandez was sending the letter to Mexico. I didn't have too much contact with
that deal, because that was for another organization, not my organization, and I
didn't want to be involved, in that that maybe was against the law. I always
try to be out of----
You mean this letter was intercepted by some other Cuban organization?
Yes; for the same organization who had the training camp.
That was intercepted while it was in the U.S. mails?
I think so. I think that he gave that letter to somebody to drop in the
mail, and that somebody that was suspicious about him, they opened the letter
and they found what the letter was telling. I don't know what they do with the
letter. I don't know nothing else. I know about what is said in the paper. I
know that they dismantle all the training camp here in New Orleans. They went
back to Miami. I paid the trip for two of them to go back to Miami. Excuse me. I
did not pay the trip, I collect some monies among some Cubans, and we paid the
trip. I don't want to set something on the record that is not----
Does it say something about the letter in these newspaper stories that you
have referred me to?
Does it refer to the letter in these newspaper stories?
That is right, is covering the whole history about it [producing
These newspaper stories are, as we have indicated, in the Diario Las
Americas, issues of September 4, 1963, and September 6, 1963. Do you have copies
of these or do you want to keep these?
I think they are the only ones we have.
I will tell something else to you: This information--they are taking this
information from the Miami Herald.
You are referring now----
That was the one who interview Fernando Fernandez, the Miami Herald made an
interview to Fernando Fernandez. I already asked to some person in Miami to send
me the Miami Herald, from September 3 to September 10 to try to get all the
information directly from the Miami Herald but at this moment I only have the
Spanish publication over there.
Do you know where Fernandez is now?
No; I don't know where he is. He was telling in that interview that he was
willing to go to Cuba, to go back to Cuba. I don't know whether he is in Cuba
now or not. Excuse me. Did you check any other trip from Oswald to Mexico
previously to the trip 3 weeks before the assassination? Because I think that
you have to know sure that Mr. Stuckey, Bill Stuckey, made another interview to
Oswald, and he had the tape of that interview. I have one tape of that
interview. I think that that interview was made on August 17, 1963, and at that
interview Oswald said, answering to one question, that he had been in Mexico,
and in all the magazines that I am reading they are talking about Oswald was
born in New Orleans, he went to New York, he came back to New Orleans, he went
to the Marines, he went to Russia, he came back, he he went to Dallas, he came
to New Orleans back, he went to Mexico 3 weeks before the assassination, but I
don't read in any newspaper or any magazine talking about some other trip from
Oswald to Mex
ico, and if you have that tape, in Oswald's own voice, he admitted that he had
been to Mexico before August 17.
Well, Mr. Stuckey will be here this afternoon. We will ask him about
Going back briefly to this story of Mr. Pena telling you that he had seen
Oswald in the Havana Bar with this other Mexican, did the FBI ever talk to Mr.
Pena about this? Do you know?
I don't know. I know that the owner of the Havana Bar, in my opinion, is a
good person, but he says that always when he talk to the FBI in the bar or
something like that, that he lose customers, because, you see, to those bars
sometime there are people, customers, who don't like to see FBI around there,
and he says that always he lose customers when the FBI start to go over there,
and sometime he become angry and sometime he don't want to talk about. I am sure
that the brother, Ruperto---I am sure that he will tell everything that he
Did you form any opinion as to whether the report that Ruperto made about
Oswald being in the bar was an accurate report?
Well, the question is this: Was not only Ruperto told me that Oswald went to
Havana Bar. The one who told me that was Evaristo Rodriguez, and I never saw
Evaristo Rodriguez telling lies or never--Evaristo is quiet person, he is young,
married, but he is quiet. He is not an extrovert, that is, not a----
He wouldn't be likely to make this story up?
No; I don't believe so.
I remember that when somebody--I believe that was the Secret Service showed
to me the other picture that I tell you, that they were--they had already
identified one and they were trying to identify the other one. I am sure that
there were two, and no doubt about that.
In any event, you didn't recognize any of the----
Individuals in the pictures that we showed you previously, Pizzo Exhibits
453-A and 453-B, and Exhibit No. 1 to your own deposition?
The only person you recognized in those pictures was Lee Oswald?
That is right, that is right, and the guy I showed you, the one from Kasuga,
[Exhibiting photograph to witness.] Now I show you Exhibit No. 1 to the
affidavit of Jesse Garner, and I ask you if you recognize the individual in that
And who is that?
Well, the picture look like that is Lee Harvey Oswald.
And it shows him handing out a leaflet?
"Hands Off Cuba."
Reading off "Hands Off Cuba," does it not? Does that leaflet look similar to
the leaflet you saw Oswald handing out?
And you recognize that man obviously as Oswald, don't you?
I don't think I have any more questions at this point, but if you have
anything else that you want to add, why, you can go right ahead and do it. You
have done most of the testifying without my help and you have done very
Thank you. I don't know if you had already the information that the Cuban
Student Directorate Headquarters in Miami gave to the press on January 31 about
Jack Ruby's second trip to Cuba in 1962.
I am not familiar with it offhand. What is it?
Well, you could check the name and the date of the newspaper. It is the same
"Diario Las Americas" from Miami, February 1, 1964, information from the Cuban
Student Directorate Headquarters in Miami telling that Jack Ruby went to Cuba at
the end of 1962 through Mexico, and he was in Cuba until the beginning of 1963.
After that I talked to them by long-distance telephone, long-distance call, and
they informed me that they already have turned over to the FBI all the proof
about this trip from Ruby going to Cuba.
What is the name of the person that you spoke to in Miami?
The person to whom I spoke in Miami, his name is Joaquin Martinez de
And he indicated that the information concerning Ruby's trip had already
been given to the FBI?
To the FBI. That is right.
Can you think of anything else that you think we should know about at this
Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Back on the record. Going back briefly to the time at which you and Oswald
and your other friends were arrested and taken to the police station here in New
Orleans on August 9, 1963, were you interviewed at the police station by any
agent of the FBI?
Well, there were two plain-clothing agents that identified (themselves) as a
member of the FBI, I believe, and they were questioning us on the generalities
of Oswald and all, and when I was explaining to them and all, they had some kind
of confusion sometime because they didn't know if we were Communists, and I had
to explain to them three or four times that we were not the Communists and that
Oswald was the one that was doing that in favor of Castro.
Do you know whether they interviewed Oswald?
I think. I thought that they interviewed Oswald, but not in front of me.
They were talking to him in front of me, but when they were ready to interview
Oswald, they moved to other place to interview him.
You had to point out to them several times that it was Oswald who was the
Castro provocateur, so to say, and not you? Is that correct?
Yes, sir; because they were asking to us in one way as if we were Communists
or pro-Castro, and I had to explain to them in three or four different times
that we were Cubans but we were not pro-Castro and that we were the ones in the
fight against Oswald.
I have no more questions at this time, Mr. Bringuier. If you can't think of
anything else that you want to add now--can you think of anything else?
No, sir; I don't.
I want to thank you very much for spending the time that you have with us
and for cooperating with us the way you have. You have been very helpful. On
behalf of the Commission, I want to thank you very much.