TESTIMONY OF E. D. BREWER
The testimony of E.D. Brewer was taken at 10 a.m., on April 9, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BELIN. Would you stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. BREWER. I do.
Mr. BELIN. Would you state your name.
Mr. BREWER. E.D. Brewer.
Mr. BELIN. What Is your occupation, Mr. Brewer?
Mr. BREWER. Police officer for the City of Dallas.
Mr. BELIN. How old are you?
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Mr. BREWER. I am 32 years old.
Mr. BELIN. You go to school here in Dallas?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you get through school?
Mr. BREWER. I graduated from high school
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. BREWER. I got married and went to work for the Dallas Power & Light. About a year later I went into the U.S. Coast Guard and stayed 3 years.
Mr. BELIN. Honorable discharge?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. BREWER. I went to work for the Dallas Police Department.
Mr. BELIN. You have been working for them about 10 years now?
Mr. BREWER. Since December 1964.
Mr. BELIN. Were you on duty on November 22, 1963?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What was your assignment that day?
Mr. BREWER. I was riding solo motorcycle, in the Presidential motorcade.
Mr. BELIN. What position were you in in the motorcade?
Mr. BREWER. I was In the front.
Mr. BELIN. By which car? Near which car?
Mr. BREWER. If I remember correctly, the President's car was about - the Chief of Police was In a car Immediately in front. The President's car was behind him, I believe, If I remember correctly, and I was in front of the Chiefs car.
Mr. BELIN. You were in front of the Chief's car?
Mr. BREWER. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. You were in the lead part of the motorcade?
Mr. BREWER. Yes. I was the front vehicle. There was four or five of us up there in a line across the street.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how fast you were going as you went. down Main Street there towards Houston?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir; not exactly. The speed of it would vary considerably according to the crowd of people on each aide of the street as to how we could get through.
Mr. BELIN. Did you remember how fast you were going as you turned north on Houston?
Mr. BREWER. It was in my assignment to leave my position there and go ahead of the motorcade as we were approaching Houston on Main Street, and before we got to Houston Street I left. I pulled out ahead of them, and following the same route, went down to the intersection or to where the motorcade was to come onto Stemmons Freeway.
Mr. BELIN. So your speed wasn't necessarily accurate with the motorcade, is that correct, sometimes?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir; I had pulled away from the motorcade on Main Street and proceeded on down to the Stemmons Freeway.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you when you heard the shot?
Mr. BREWER. I never did hear any shots.
Mr. BELIN. When was the first time you learned that something was wrong?
Mr. BREWER. I was on Stemmons Freeway there where you come onto it, where the motorcade come onto Stemmons. Went under Stemmons and around to the right and onto Stemmons, and I was on Stemmons Expressway off of my motorcycle there on the expressway when I believe I heard it on the radio first about the shooting.
Mr. BELIN. Were you to stop traffic on the expressway?
Mr. BREWER. Yes. I was to assist some other officers in stopping traffic on the expressway to allow the motorcade to get onto it.
Mr. BELIN. So you were in the process of stopping traffic, waiting for the motorcade to come by, when you heard something on your motorcycle radio?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far were you from the so-called underpass there, or overpass there?
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Mr. BREWER. I was to the north of where the railroad track goes over. Let's see, the railroad track, where the railroad tracks go over Stemmons Expressway. I was to the north of that.
Mr. BELIN. Let me try and get a sketch. Officer, I just stepped out of the room to come back in and bring a map of Dallas, which I believe is similar to Commission's Exhibit 371, which I am going to mark here Deposition Exhibit A, which we will call It E.D. Brewer deposition Exhibit A. I have it marked in red pencil here, and on this map of Dallas, on one side of it in one corner of it is a section called, Downtown Dallas, and this Is towards the top of the reverse side of the map.
I am going to ask you to look at this map. You see the place here, it looks like Dealey Plaza, Main Street runs into that, which is Houston, then you turned north on Houston and Elm, and then you take Elm?
Mr. BREWER. Left on Elm.
Mr. BELIN. Left on Elm. You went under the railroad underpass there, which appears to be in green on the map, is that correct?
Mr. BREWER. Yea, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then I am going to ask you to take a pencil or a ball point pen, and you might just follow the route that you took. Just mark it parallel to whatever street you took to where you ended up.
Mr. BREWER. (Marks on map.)
Down Elm under the railroad tracks to Stemmons, under Stemmons to the right, headed north parallel to Stemmons on that entranceway, under that T & p Railroad, and onto Stemmons Expressway, and Just north of the T & P Railroad.
Mr. BELIN. Now is that where you stopped your motorcycle?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to put an arrow pointing to the spot that you stopped, is that correct?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, that is the spot right there.
Mr. BELIN. You have it marked kind of with an "X"?
Mr. BREWER. To the best of my knowledge, that is right where we was at.
Mr. BELIN. Was another officer there at the time when you got there?
Mr. BREWER. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What were they doing?
Mr. BREWER. We all proceeded to stop the traffic northbound on Stemmons.
Mr. BELIN. Why were you going to do that?
Mr. BREWER. So that the motorcade which was headed in that direction at that time could get onto Stemmons and wouldn't be interfered with by the rest of the traffic.
Mr. BELIN. All right, where were you when you first learned of the shooting or that something was wrong?
Mr. BREWER. At that location.
Mr. BELIN. How did you learn about it?
Mr. BREWER. I believe it was on the radio, we heard it.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do?
Mr. BREWER. On the police radio. Well, when it was determined that - right after we heard that on the radio, something about it on the radio, we heard that they were enroute to Parkland Hospital, and immediately after that they came by us and came onto Stemmons Expressway and went by us in the direction of Parkland Hospital, the motorcade, part of it.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. BREWER. We heard that the shots had came from the Texas School Book Depository Building, and at that time I got on my motorcycle and proceeded back up to the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. BREWER. I went in the building.
Mr. BELIN. You went inside the building?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir; there was officers all around the building at the time I got there.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got in the building?
Mr. BREWER. Well, with some other officers, we was part of the officers that was searching the building floor by floor.
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Mr. BELIN. Now what was your call number that day?
Mr. BREWER. 137.
Mr. BELIN. Handing you what has been marked Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A, which appears to be a transcript of a police log of the Dallas Police Department, you see this exhibit here?
Mr. BREWER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Your call number that day was?
Mr. BREWER. 137.
Mr. BELIN. I notice here that the first time there appears Call No. 137, after 12:30 is at 12:38 p.m.
There is a call from 137 to 531. You want to read what it says there?
Mr. BREWER. "A witness says he saw 'em pull the weapon from the window of the second floor on the southeast comer of the Depository Building."
Mr. BELIN. Would that have been the second floor or the second floor from the top?
Mr. BREWER. I don't know.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember any witness talking to you at all?
Mr. BREWER. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what he said?
Mr. BREWER. He said that he had saw him pull a weapon from the window from that building.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what window he said?
Mr. BREWER. I don't remember specifically which window he indicated, but I immediately told that to the dispatcher and proceeded on up to the building.
Mr. BELIN. I see the conversation continues on the next page. The dispatcher No. 531, to 137, "Do you have the building covered off?"
And then you reply:
Mr. BREWER. "I'm about three-fourths of a block away."
Mr. BELIN. Is that where you were when this man--
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now from the time you first heard that something was wrong, you had taken your motorcycle and gone where?
Mr. BREWER. Sir?
Mr. BELIN. You were on the Stemmons Freeway when you heard that some thing was wrong, is that correct?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, air.
Mr. BELIN. Then you went from Stemmons Freeway where?
Mr. BREWER. Up to the Texas School Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN. Did you stop anywhere along the way?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir; the only time that I stopped was when this guy come up to me and told it to me, and then was gone.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you did stop then and talk to this one individual?
Mr. BREWER. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Which street were you on when you stopped?
Mr. BREWER. I was proceeding back up Elm Street the wrong way on Elm.
Mr. BELIN. About where were you when this one person talked that said he saw him pull the weapon in?
Mr. BREWER. I was down there about the triple underpass on Elm.
Mr. BELIN. You mean right under the triple underpass?
Mr. BREWER. Or coming to it.
Mr. BELIN. Well, coming to it?
Mr. BREWER. From the west.
Mr. BELIN. Would you have been on the west aide of that?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, right there about that curb.
Mr. BELIN. Before you left Stemmons Freeway, did you look up or around to see if there was anything suspicious in that area?
Mr. BREWER. We was all looking up in the railroad tracks from the west side.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything at all?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir; we saw some people coming up there, but they seemed to be up there looking.
Mr. BELIN. You mean you saw people up there searching?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
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Mr. BELIN. Did you see anybody running away?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. See anyone acting suspiciously by himself?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you left that area and came right down the wrong way, you say, back to retrace your route, is that correct?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then somewhere in the vicinity of the railroad underpass, you were stopped by this one individual that you reported on the radio log, is that. correct?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether this man that you talked to was a white male or a Negro?
Mr. BREWER. He was a white man, the best of my memory.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything else about him?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did he have any camera or anything?
Mr. BREWER. Not that I recall.
Mr. BELIN. Now after this order to report to the School Book Depository Building, what did you do?
Mr. BREWER. I went there.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?
Mr. BREWER. Went in the building.
Mr. BELIN. Which door?
Mr. BREWER. By the front door.
Mr. BELIN. Had the building been sealed off by the time you got there?
Mr. BREWER. Yes. sir.
Mr. BELIN. Were officers blocking everyone that was coming in, to prohibit them from coming in and going out?
Mr. BREWER. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?
Mr. BREWER. I went inside the building.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you go?
Mr. BREWER. I proceeded to assist in the floor to floor search of the building with some other officers.
Mr. BELIN. What floor did you start on?
Mr. BREWER. On the bottom floor.
Mr. BELIN. You went up to the top?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far up did you go?
Mr. BREWER. We searched all of it before we quit.
Mr. BELIN. Well, were you ever on the 6th floor?
Mr. BREWER. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Were you on the sixth floor when you found anything there?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you find?
Mr. BREWER. I was on the sixth floor when they found those spent cases from the rifle.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you when they found them?
Mr. BREWER. I don't know exactly. I was on the floor searching around in among some boxes that were stacked up there.
Mr. BELIN. Hear anyone say anything about cartridge cases or anything?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir. Whoever found them turned around and let it be known to one of the supervisor officers that he had found them, or that they had been found over there.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you heard the news?
Mr. BREWER. I continued searching.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go and take a look at the cartridge cases?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How many cartridge cases did you see?
Mr. BREWER. Three.
Mr. BELIN. Where were they?
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Mr. BREWER. They were there under, by the window.
Mr. BELIN. What window?
Mr. BREWER. In the southeast corner of the building, facing south.
Mr. BELIN. See anything else there at the time by the window?
Mr. BREWER. Paper lunch sack and some chicken bones or partially eaten piece of chicken, or a piece at chicken.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else?
Mr. BREWER. A drink bottle.
Mr. BELIN. What bottle?
Mr. BREWER. A cold drink bottle, soda pop bottle.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else?
Mr. BREWER. In relation to what?
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else in the southeast corner?
Mr. BREWER. There was a paper, relatively long paper sack there.
Mr. BELIN. Where was that?
Mr. BREWER. It was there In the southeast corner.
Mr. BELIN. Under the window?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir. To the left of it. To the east of it.
Mr. BELIN. To the left as you faced the window?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did the window come right up next to the corner there, do you remember?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir; it didn't come up next to the corner. It was offset.
Mr. BELIN. Can you remember how far at all, or not?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir; I don't remember the exact distance of it.
Mr. BELIN. Was any part of the paper sack under the window, If you remember or not? That long paper sack?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything about what the sack looked like?
Mr. BREWER. Well, it was assumed at the time that it was the sack that the rifle was wrapped up in when it was brought into the building, and it appeared that it could have been used for that.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you mean you assumed that before you found the rifle?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir; I suppose. That was discussed.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything else that was found around there or not?
Mr. BREWER. Not in that particular area.
Mr. BELIN. Anything found anywhere else In the sixth floor?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir. The rifle was found on the sixth floor.
Mr. BELIN. Where was that?
Mr. BREWER. It was found in a northwest corner under some, in between same boxes that were stacked up there at the bead of the stairs.
Mr. BELIN. Were you there when they found the rifle?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far away from the area were you when you found the rifle, If you remember?
Mr. BREWER. Several feet from it. I don't remember exactly.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see the rifle?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where was it located?
Mr. BREWER. It was laying down low on the floor or on the floor down between some, a very narrow space where boxes were stacked up there, and there was a space between the boxes, and it was laying down there in between it, like it had been stuck in there hurriedly, and possibly just before whoever laid it there went down the stairs.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you found of significance in the building at all or not?
Mr. BREWER. Not that I recall.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do the rest of the afternoon?
Mr. BREWER. Well, we proceeded to search the building after that, and we
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spent, I don't know the exact amount of time we spent in the building after that, but when Lieutenant Jack Revill was satisfied, we went back downstairs and, I went back out to my motorcycle and to my immediate superior officer and received another assignment.
Mr. BELIN. Did you have anything to do with the investigation of the assassination that day?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What about on Saturday?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Sunday?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir. My primary job was traffic control
Mr. BELIN. Did you have anything to do with the investigation of Officer Tippit's murder?
Mr. BREWER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Is there anything that you can think of that might in any way be relevant to the assassination of the President or the shooting of Officer Tippit?
Mr. BREWER. Not that I can think of; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Sir, I want to thank you very much for coming on down here. You have an opportunity, if you like, to come hack and read the deposition and sign it, or else you can waive the signing of it and have it sent directly to Washington, whichever, you prefer.
Mr. BREWER. It don't matter. Whichever you prefer.
Mr. BELIN. We have no preference.
Mr. BREWER. Okay, you send it on.
Mr. BELIN. Do you want to waive the signing of it?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.