DEPOSITIONS OF MARINA OSWALD PORTER
Staff Report of the
Select Committee on Assassinations
U.S. House of Representatives
Ninety-fifth Congress
Second Session
March 1979

CONTENTS

Introduction
Deposition of Marina Oswald Porter, Sept. 20, 1977
Deposition of Marina Oswald Porter, Aug. 9, 1978

INTRODUCTION

During Marina Oswald Porter's public testimony before the committee on September 13, 1978, Congressman Preyer stated the two depositions she had previously given the committee's staff would be make part of the committee's final report. Those depositions are reprinted in their entirety in this appendix.

DEPOSITION

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 1977
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS,
Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:44 a.m., in room 16G28, Federal Building, Dallas, Tex.

Present: Ken Klein, assistant deputy chief counsel, and Clifford Fenton, chief investigator.

Mr. MULLOY. For the record, I am Patrick H Mulloy, U.S. Magistrate for the Northern District of Texas, here for the purpose of swearing in Marina Oswald Porter for a deposition this morning.
Will you raise your right hand?
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give on this deposition will be the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. PORTER. I do.
Mr. MULLOY. Further, pursuant to the laws of the United States, I am authorized--I wish I had a copy of the Code--I am authorized to take oaths.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Mr. KLEIN. Good morning. My name is Kenneth Klein and I am the assistant deputy chief counsel for the House Select committee on Assassinations. Today is September 20, 1977, it is approximately 10:55 in the morning. Present is Clifford Fenton, who is the chief investigator for the House Select Committe on assassinations. To your right is Mrs. Jewel McGrath, who is a stenographer and, as you can see, she is taking down everything we are saying here. For the record, would you please identify yourself?
The WITNESS. Mrs. Marina Porter.
By Mr. KLEIN:
Q. Please give your address.
A. I live on Route 1, Box 228A, Rockwell, Tex.
Q. We are in the conference room in room 16G28 of the Federal building here in Dallas, Tex. Now, I have been designated to obtain statements from witnesses under oath by the Select Committee on Assassinations. Up to this point I met you approximately 1 hour ago and I have not spoke to you about any of the facts pertaining to the death of President Kennedy, is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. Before we go any further, is this statement that you are giving us now a voluntary statement?
A. It is.
Q. you have not been subpenaed to appear here, you are appearing voluntarily, is that correct?
A. that is correct.
Q. I have advised you that you have a right to have a lawyer present during this statement, is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. Do you wish to have a lawyer present?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Now, do you at this time have any difficulties speaking or understanding English?
A. I don't think so. I will ask if I don't understand something.
Q. You have lived in the United States for how many years?
A. Just a minute-1962.
Q. From 1962 to 1977, that is 15 years?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you speak English in the course of your every day activities here?
A. I do.
Q. If you do have any problem understanding anything that I say, please ask me and I will put it into a form that you will understand. Is to fair to say you have no problems communicating with people in English from day to day?
A. Usually I don't; if I do not understand a certain work, I will ask the meaning of it.
Q. Before me I have a copy of our committee rules. It is entitled Committee Rules of the Select committee on Assassination, U.S. House of Representatives, 95th Congress. I also have a copy of House Resolution 433 and a copy of House Resolution 222 and I am making all three documents available to you and I also should note for the record that I made these available to you approximately 15 minutes ago when we entered this room.
A. Right.
Q. I am going to ask you questions, many of which will pertain to testimony that you gave before the Warren Commission when you testified before that body. In some cases I am asking the question because I want to know if you might remember any more, or I am asking it because I have more detail to ask than they asked.
A. I don't know what the word "pertain" means. Is that a source of information?
Q. About, in other words-which was the sentence? What I mean is, that many of the questions I ask you, you were asked similar questions by the Warren Commission about the same subjects.
A. OK.
Q. I would like to see if I can possibly get some more detail on some of the questions and in some cases I will ask you question the Warren Commission did not ask you at all.
A. OK.
Q. I realize that it has been approximately 15 years since some of these events occurred and you might have difficulty remembering particular facts or information, so I would just request that you do your best and, if you don't remember something, you can say you don't remember.
A. Excuse me, you know how memory plays tricks on you.. Do you think if I try to answer some questions to the best of my ability from the memory, it would be not entirely contradictory to what i said before but maybe details may be different from what I said then so can I just go by what I said?
Q. What you can do is-I have here your testimony and if at any point you would like to look at a particular part of the testimony, you can.
A. Can you read it for me, what I said, and can I agree with it?
Q. As I said, I am interested in most cases in things that were not asked of you by the Warren Commission or where they might have touched on a subject or not asked you about particular aspects of it which I am going to ask you about.
A. OK.
Q. But if there is a point where you don't remember a particular fact, then just tell us you don't remember that.
A. OK.
Q. Do you recall testifying before the Warren Commission?
A. Yes; I do.
Q. Did anyone ever tell you what you should testify to them?f
A. No.
Q. Did anyone ever suggest to you in any way how you should testify, or what you should say to the Warren Commission?
A. No.
Q. to your knowledge, as you sit here today, is there anything which you testified to before the Warren Commission which you now believe to be incorrect?
A. No; I never read my own testimony but whatever I said was the truth.
Q. My next question was going to be now that you speak and understand english much better than you did at the time you testified before the Warren Commission, have you ever had the opportunity to look over the printed testimony, your testimony before the Warren Commission?
A. No; I never have. I had an interpreter, I believe.
Q. At that time you had an interpreter. What I am saying is, in the years since then, if you testified now you wouldn't need an interpreter, I take it, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What I am asking is, did anybody ever give you the transcripts of what you testified before the Warren Commission and let you read that transcript?
A. I had the privilege of reading my testimony, it was offered to me but I didn't read it.
Q. You never did?
A. No.
Q. Is there anything which you didn't tell the Warren Commission about relating to the assassination of President Kennedy which you can tell us now?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Is there any area where the Warren Commission did not ask you any questions and yet you know that you did possess some information that related to the assassination of President Kennedy, but they didn't ask you about it?
A. I did not study the Warren Commission report so I was not looking for faults.
Q. I am not saying a fault, am saying is there any area where they didn't ask questions in a particular area so you did not volunteer the information which you can think of at this time?
A. I think I lost you. Would you please repeat that?
Q. What I am saying is this, is there any information which you might have possessed which related to the assassination of President Kennedy where the Warren Commission, for whatever reason, did not ask you a question in that area and therefore you wouldn't have told them about it. Is there anything like that that you can tell us about now?
A. What you really mean, if I had hidden something inside that will maybe open up something more?
Q. Not necessarily that you have hidden something.
A. Or forgot?
Q. An area where they simply did not ask you about it and at the time you didn't remember to tell them about it so it was never told.
A. I don't think so. You see, when you listen to the news and television you don't know where the sources come from, the Warren Commission or somebody else, you never question going back to the Warren Commission and reading it, was it there or not.
Q. I would like to ask you a few questions now concerning your background in Russia.
A. OK.
Q. When you met Lee Harvey Oswald, where were you living at that time?
A. With my aunt and uncle in Minsk.
Q. What was your uncle's name?
A. Ilya Proosakov.
Q. When you testified before the Warren Commission, you stated that he worked for the Ministry of Interior, is that correct?
A. Just a minute, let me translate from Russian to English. Yes; Minister in Internal Affairs.
Q. Ministry of Internal Affairs?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he do for the Ministry?
A. He was engineer by profession but that is all I know. He had some kind of ranking, military ranking as well. He had to wear a uniform.
Q. Do you recall testifying he was a colonel or lieutenant?
A. Lieutenant colonel.
Q. Do you have any idea what his job was?
A. No; he never discussed his job at home.
Q. Sonce you testified before the Warren Commission, since that time, have you ever heard from that uncle?
A. I did place a telephone call once to my uncle, it was about 4 years ago. At first I wasn't sure that it was him. You never know with the Russians. But then I asked him to speak to my aunt and he said that she is not available, so I asked him what time it was over there, he said just wait a minute and let me go and check. It took a little while, so then I knew it was him. He was very cold on the telephone, he was like an icicle. I do not expect a relative to be so cold. He didn't answer any questions except yes and no and that was it. then I asked to speak to my aunt, but she was out of the apartment.
Q. Did you ever speak to him about the assassination at all?
A. No.
Q. Did Lee Harvey Oswald ever meet your uncle when you were in Russia?
A. He met him before we were married, sure.
Q. What kind of relationship did they have?
A. Just polite. They were courteous to each other, sometimes they discussed politics and each of them had a different opinion but they really didn't argue, you know, that loudly.
Q. Did they ever spend any time together when you were not present?
A. Probably.
Q. Did they ever, to your knowledge, go anywhere together?
A. I don't think so. Sometimes we would visit. Lee would sometimes visit my aunt and uncle when I would be home with the baby or sometimes me and my aunt would talk and they would talk together.
Q. Did Lee Harvey Oswald ever speak to you about your uncle?
A. Of course he did. We discussed our relatives.
Q. What generally was his feeling toward your uncle?
A. That he consedered him kind of cool and really-just a minute, let me phrase it right--not very open person, that he was kind of secretive and he said that he had been under--I mean worked with the Government so long or whatever his schooling was, that he does not open up that quick.
Q. Was your uncle associalted in any way with the secret police?
A. I don't think so. I would not know. That is my guess.
Q. What do you really mean by secret police, doing arrests or something like that?
A. Since I don't know what kind of job he really was doing, I cannot speculate so whatever I said could be true or not true.
Q. when you say you don't know what kind of job he was doing, was it unusual that you wouldn't know what kind of job your uncle, who you were living with, was doing?
A. No; it is an official building, lots of people would live in the same building live there. There were doctors and engineers, professions. Once the ago behind the doors you don't know what the were doing. I know what his profession was.
Q. Did he make an effort to not let you know what his job was?
A. It never entered my mind to ask him what particular things he was doing.
Q. Did you live with him?
A. Yes, and it was understood that the job that he is doing is not to be discussed at home. He telephone number there was unlisted, only his wife knew it. She have me his telephone number once I called him. He was upset and he told me never to call his telephone number again. I thought it was sick.
Q. You have no idea what his actual function was?
A. Sometimes he brought books home and they would be concerned with-just a minute, I don't know how to translate the name of the college he finished-can we go off the record?
Q. Ask the question on the record.
A. For example, a person working with the wood, the forest, it doesn't mean a ranger or lumberjack, but you have to study all about grains, mathematics, and things.
Q. Are you saying the books he brought home were concerned with wood?
A. The industry, everything having to do with the wood. That is what he mentioned. Sometimes like college kids would have exams and he would be present and check their papers, too, once a year.
Q. Did your uncle ever express any views to you about the United States?
A. Oh, yes, every time I mentioned something about America and other countries, he said, well, you think everything in foreign countries are better, he said they have just as much junk as we do. He was quite patriotic.
Q. Did he ever say he liked or disliked the United States?
A. My opinion was that he did like it because we had a subscription to American Magazine that was prohibited by law but until then we always had it.
Q. Did your uncle ever mention President Kennedy?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. To your knowledge, is he still alive?
A. I don't know if I would hear if he died, because he was pretty old then. He had one heart attack. My aunt was pampering him all the time. She was afraid he was going to die.
Q. Do you recall the name of the person who introduced you to Lee harvey Oswald?
A. I forgot most of the Russian names. Do you have any names. Could you have any names with you? I can tell you if it is correct or not.
Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I told you you testifies to the warren commission it was Yuri Mereginsky?
A. I don't remember anybody by that name, but it is probably correct.
Q. M-E-R-E-G-I-N-S-K-Y? Do you recall-
A. That is probably correct but I do not remember it.
Q. When I say that name, do you remember the person?
A. No.
Q. Nothing at all?
A. No, because it was a group of young men around and right now in my mind I can't remember exactly what the figures looked like who introduced me to this is so and this is so and so.
Q. Could you tell us what were the circumstances under which you were introduced to Lee Harvey Oswald?
A. I had a date. I was invited for the dance and I promised the boy for 6 months that I would go to the ball with him. We were there. It was another group of people and I was introduced to him by somebody.
Q. Was it just-was it a coincidence that you were introduced to him or did somebody intend you to meet him, did somebody want you to meet this particular person?
A. It was a coincidence.
Q. You have no recollection of the person that actually introduced you to him?
A. No.
Q. You have no recollection of the person Yuri Mereginsky?
A. No I wish I knew who it was.
Q. Do you recall what year you and Lee Harvey Oswald left the Soviet Union?
A. I believe it was June 1962.
Q. Was it unusual for a Soviet woman who had married an American to be granted permission to leave the country?
A. I was surprised they granted me permission, I really was.
Q. Do you have any idea why you were granted permission?
A. I considered it just being lucky.
Q. Did Lee Harvey Oswald ever indicate to you whether he knew how come you were allowed to leave the country?
A. He had his doubts as well.
Q. he had his doubts as to whether you would be---
A. As to whether I would be able to leave.
Q. Did you ever say to him, "Why do you suppose they let me Leave?"
A. A don't remember if I ever asked him this question but I sure did ask myself.
Q. Did he ever say anything after you were granted permission?
A. We were just very happy that we would be going to go.
Q. Do you recall when you were informed that you would be allowed to leave?
A. I could be May.
Q. I am not asking so much for the date as for where you were, where he was and just in what manner you were informed.
A. I think we received some kind of letter, or information, it was through the mail. Nobody came and announced.
Q. Were you both, that means you and Lee Harvey Oswald, present when you opened that particular letter?
A. I don't remember whether I was alone or he read it-had the message.
Q. Do you remember what his reaction was when he first learned that they were going to allow you to leave?
A. Oh, whoopee, you know.
Q. Was it a surprise?
A. It was a joyful event.
Q. What I am asking is did he appear to be surprised that you were allowed to leave or did she seem maybe to expect that you would be able to leave?
A. He did not expect that. I felt like I was just worthless to the Russians so they just let me go. That is the only explanation I can give because I have a very bad characteristic from work.
Q. I should indicate for the record that the U.S. attorney, U.S. Attorney Mighell just entered the room and gave me a piece of paper and then left the room. Did Lee Harvey Oswald ever speak to you at any time about-I mean after you were granted this permission, did he ever speak to you about how it came about that you were granted this permission to leave?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Would you tell me what physical markings you recall on the body of Lee Harvey Oswald, I mean any scars, anything that you could describe, any marks on his body?
A. He had a thin scar on his wrist.
Q. Which wrist?
A. The one he wore his watch on, I don't know whether it was right or left.
Q. The one he wore his watch on?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was the scar?
A. On the inside.
Q. You pointed to the inside of your left wrist.
A. Yes.
Q. Any other scars on his body?
A. I think one behind his ear.
Q. Do you recall which ear?
A. No.
Q. The one behind his ear, was it noticeable?
A. Maybe it wasn't noticeable; you had to look for it.
Q. Could it bee seen without pushing his hair back or was it---
A. No; you could not see it.
Q. You had to look for it to see it.
A. yes.
Q. To your knowledge did he have any other marks on his body?
A. I don't remember. I don't think he had an appendix scar.
Q. The Warren Commission questioned you and you testified that at certain times FBI agents spoke with you, is that correct?
A. I recall that we had some visits from some men and since I didn't speak any English, I have been told by Lee that is was FBI man. Then once that I remember, it was an agent who claimed to be from the FBI. It was Ruth Paine, the agent from the FBI came, and he spoke to me through her. he was the interpreter.
Q. What did she tell you the FBI man said?
A. He said-he asked questions if I had been approached by any foreign agent at any time since I arrived from Russia and would I tell him or call him right away if anybody would do such a thing.
Q. Do you recall the name of the FBI agent?
A. Since I have been listening to the news and testified a few times, I think the name is Hastings, but as far as remembering the man being introduced by this name at the time, I do not.
Q. Is the name James Hosty, familiar?
A. Yes; that is familiar, that is the name of an associate with the man who came to the house with Ruth Paine.
Q. Now, you testified before the Warren Commission that at sometime in August 1962 Lee Harvey Oswald went outside and spoke to some FBI men for a couple of hours?
A. If I testified to it, that is probably--I mean that is true.
Q. Do you remember right now as you sit here today, do you remember that incident where he went outside and spoke to FBI agents?
A. Very vaguely. Was it in Fort Worth?
Q. I believe that was what your testimony was.
A. That is the memory that I have, that it was in Fort Worth.
Q. Do you recall anything he said to you after he finished speaking to the FBI men?
A. I recall when he came inside he was quite upset over it and wished that they had left him alone.
Q. What did he tell you about his relationship with the FBI? What were his feelings toward the FBI?
A. The information that he gave me and his reasons for being upset was because he said he was annoyed by them checking on him; the only reason for that is that he just returned from Russia.
Q. Were the feelings that he expressed about the FBI-did they ever change or was he always annoyed at them?
A. I think he was annoyed all the time.
Q. Was there any time when he ever appeared to like them or to be friendly with them?
A. I don't think so. I think he was reserved and polite and that was it. I didn't hear the conversation. If I did, it was in a different language anyway, I mean from mine.
Q. I am talking more about what he would say to you at times when he was alone with you about his contacts with the FBI. Did he ever appear to be friendly toward them?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. This agent Hosty--
A. Excuse me, what do you mean, invite for a cup of coffee and be very hospitable, is that what you mean?
Q. You testified before the Warren commission and to us just now at times he was angry with them for bothering him. What I am asking you is, were there any other times when he might have said to you, "Gee, I like the FBI; I think they do a good job," or something like that?
A. No; he never said that.
Q. This agent James Hosty who spoke with you at one time, have you ever seem or spoken to him since the date of the assassination?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Since you spoke to the Warren Commission, have FBI agents come and interviewed you at any time or spoken to you at any time since you testified before the Warren Commission?
A. I testified for the Warren Commission I believe three times.
Q. Right.
A. You mean after the third time did they ever contact me?
Q. That is correct.
A. If I have been in contact with them, it does not have anything to do with the warren Commission testimony.
Q. My question, I will make it more specific, did they ever contact your or you have contact with them on anything relating to the Warren Commission or the assassination of President Kennedy?
A. No.
Q. Are you aware that a short time before the assassination, Lee Harvey Oswald delivered a note to the FBI office in Dallas addressed to agent Hosty?
A. When I heard this on the news, I was surprised.
Q. When you heard it on the news, was that the first time that you ever knew anything about this?
A. That was news to me that a note like that even existed. I had my doubts because knowing a little bit of Lee's personality and my knowledge he had been annoyed by the FBI and wanted to be left alone, I wondered if he would go-I don't know the right word for it-and threaten somebody with a note. The content of the note I found out through the news media. I seriously doubt---
Q. Forgetting what the news said the content of the note was, you had no indication from him that he had ever written a note to them?
A. I do not remember that. He slightly mentioned something. I do not recall at all because I was surprised when I heard on the news. It didn't bring any memories, like, well, I forgot. Lee said, "Well, I am going"--he mentioned he was going to talk to them and tell them to stop harassing him, that is true, but I don't recall that he mentioned anything about the note.
Q. Did you tell him that they were harassing you?
A. No; I just told him about the incident that the man came alone and what he asked me and it make him angry.
Q. It make Lee Harvey Oswald angry?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he say what he was going to do, that he was going to do anything about it?
A. He said he was going to ask them to leave me out of all these visits.
Q. Did Lee Harvey Oswald tell you that he spoke to the FBI when he was arrested in New Orleans?
A. I don't remember that.
Q. Are you surprised to learn that Lee Harvey Oswald, upon being arrested in New Orleans, asked to speak to the FBI?
A. I didn't know that he asked to speak to the FBI.
Q. I am saying if I were to tell you that, that he did do that, would that surprise you?
A. Really not, because I think the FBI is a Government branch and beside the police, to call somebody else when it is something international you don't call the police; you would call the FBI, that is what I would call.
Q. When the Warren Commission took your testimony they asked you if to your knowledge did Lee Harvey Oswald ever work for the FBI. And you testified he didn't. (Witness shook her head no.)
Q. Is there anything you have thought of or learned in the intervening years which might make you either change your answer or question whether he might have worked for the FBI?
A. You know, so many different speculative things have been raised through the news media--
Q. I am not saying things you read in the newspaper, I am saying from your won personal memories.
A. No; not from my personal life.
Q. Let me say this before going further. All the questions I am asking you I would like you to answer from your own personal knowledge and memory of events and, unless I specifically ask for it, I would hope you would not answer any questions based on what you read in the newspaper or saw on television.
A. Yes; it is very confusing.
Q. I want to make that clear.
A. Whatever you are asking right now, it will be from my personal memory. OK.
Q. Have any people ever contacted you either before or after the assassination and identified themselves as members of the Central Intelligence Agency?
A. No.
Q. Have any people ever contacted you either before of after the assassination and identified themselves as agents for any U.S. Government agency?
A. No. You are a government representative, so--
Q. That is correct, so other than myself, has anybody ever contacted and asked you or told you anything relating to Lee Harvey Oswald or relating to the assassination of the President?
A. I give the answer no first but now, since I look back, I have been surrounded by FBI agents and Secret Service men all the time. I didn't ask for identification all the time.
Q. The FBI and Secret Service, any other Government agents?
A. No.
Q. Now, you testified before the Warren Commission that after Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in Dallas you had one oportunity to speak with him; is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. To the best of your recollection would you tell us everything that was said at that time by you and by him?
A. To tell you the truth, I don't remember the details of the conversation. The thing I recall was it was in jail and it was a glass window and we spoke by the telephone, or through the telephone.
Q. Did you speak in English or Russian?
A. In Russian. He pointed with his eyes on the telephone and the way I understood it was that he tried to say it was bugged so be careful what you say so we just spoke about the casual things at home. That is all I can recall. I was thinking you probably have documents of the conversation.
Q. I just wanted your remarks.
A. I just asked him what the bruise was about, how he was feeling. He assured me not to worry, everything would be all right.
Q. When he told you everything would be all right, did he give you any indication of why he thought it would be all right?
A. He did speak to his mother as well, or brother. Since I didn't speak English, I thought maybe he have them places that they might call for help, a lawyer. He mentioned to me something about Red Cross. If I need anything that is where I should call.
Q. On the date of the assassination he was working in the Texas School Book Depository; is that correct?
A. That is right.
Q. Did he discuss with you that job at any time?
A. If he did, I don't remember what he was telling about the job, anything specific.
Q. Did he ever have any conversation with you about whether he could take that particular job?
A. I don't remember. Why not, a job was a job and it wasn't very easy for him to find a job. I would welcome any job he could get.
Q. you testified before the Warren Commission that you spoke to him on the Thursday right before the assassination. The assassination was on Friday; is that correct?
A. Yes. I don't remember the dates but, if you say it was a Thursday, I believe you.
Q. Do you remember seeing him-
A. The night before? Yes.
Q. The night before. Did he discuss with you at that time the fact that the President would come to Dallas the next day?
A. Yes; he did.
Q. Did he discuss the fact that the President would be passing by the Texas School Book Depository?
A. No. I kept asking questions because I was very curious about President Kennedy being in Dallas. It was very exciting and his answers were very, very cold and he looked like he didn't want to talk about it.
Q. You also testified before the Warren Commission that he had mentioned on that day renting an apartment in Dallas; do you recall that?
A. We were separated not for the reasons of having a divorce or something like that, it was because of the financial difficulties and there was only one way we could manage to save some money, if we lived apart. He wanted to come back; we were planning to get together as soon as possible, so he did mention the apartment.
Q. Do you remember him saying, on that day before the assassination, if you wanted he would rent an apartment in Dallas for you and him to live together?
A. I think so.
Q. Did he indicate to you-I withdraw that.
A. I think we had an argument that week or the night before, I don't know, because when I tried to contact him at his apartment by the number he gave me, they say there is no such person living there so he apparently didn't give the right name to them so I was very frustrated-I don't know why he shouldn't use his own name, why he should hide.
Q. Do you recall testifying before the Warren Commission that he was very secretive?
A. Yes; he was.
Q. How else was he secretive; what else did he do that was secretive? A. I would like to learn English, I would like to meet neighbors because it was very lonely to live all by yourself. He didn't want me to speak to anybody or even try to. He didn't want them to find out I was from Russia. I didn't think is was that embarrassing.
Q. Did he ever tell you why he didn't want people to know you were from Russia?
A. The way I understand, it looks like in this couantry people would be very suspicious of people coming from Communist country and he doesn't want people to stare at us or give us any difficulty; that was his explanation. I found out differently ever since.
Q. Did he hide the fact that he had been to Russia? Did he try to hide that from people?
A. I think so.
Q. Did he hide the fact that he wanted to go to Cuba? Did he hide that from people?
A. Sure.
Q. Do you remember this particular discussing the day before the assassination about him renting an apartment in Dallas?
A. I think so.
Q. What was your answer to his suggestion that he do so?
A. I really don't remember. I don't remember if I was still angry with him; I really don't recall.
Q. Do you recall if he said when in particular he would rent this apartment?
A. The location, no.
Q. Not the location but when he would rent it?
A. In the very near future, maybe a week or two.
Q. Do you recall how he got a job in the Texas School Book Depository building?
A. Through a friend.
Q. Do you recall what particular friend?
A. I think it was Ruth Paine, but I am not sure. The way I remember right now I think she was the one who was very helpful and she spoke to somebody she knew who worked there. I was very happy she helped him find a job.
Q. Were you present when Lee Harvey Oswald first learned he could have a job in the Texas School Book Depository?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Was it you who told him about the job?
A. Maybe it was Ruth. I probably was present because it is all in the same house. Maybe he went over there and they told him he can have a job. I really don't recall at all how it was all about.
Q. At the time that he took the job in the Texas School book Depository, were you aware of any other offers that he had for jobs in other places?
A. You se, I read sonce so that is a very confusing-
Q. I am not interested in what you read.
A. I don't remember if I knew or not.
Q. If he would have had another job offer at the same time for more money, can you think of any reason why he might have taken the job in the Texas School Book Depository instead of another job?
A. I do believe he did like Ruth and, since she went to all the trouble to get the job for him, I think that would have been the courteous thing to do.
Q. Do you think he might have taken a job for less money just because hi liked Ruth?
A. No; it doesn't sound logical.
Q. I am asking you, you knew the man.
A. I wish I did know the man. I thought I did but apparently I didn't.
Q. From what you knew, would he turn down a job for more money?
A. To tell the truth, we were very poor and I think a better offer of a job would probably be more likely he would take.
Q. Did he ever indicate to you he could have had a job-
A. Unless he didn't like the person maybe, he would not.
Q. Did he ever indicate to you he could have had another job which would have paid more than the job at the Texas School Book Depository?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Did he like photography?
A. I don't think so. That is a very expensive hobby.
Q. To your knowledge, did he own-will, did he own a camera?
A. I really don't remember.
Q. Did he own any kind of--
A. I remember in Russia, he took pictures. It was our camera or somebody's camera but I know he was taking pictures. I do believe it was our camera because he was carrying it with him.
Q. When you lived in Texas did he own a camera?
A. I don't recall but, according to some pictures we had he might have because he had some pictures that were taken recently, I mean during our living there. I do believe he probably had. But I would not recognize the camera. If somebody said was that yours, I would not claim it.
Q. Did he ever to your knowledge have any photography equipment, like developing or other photography equipment?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember anything?
A. I don't remember. What would that include?
Q. I mean any kind of equipment that would relatek to photography other than a camera, for example, equipment so he could develop film, anything like that?
A. I don't know anything about photography.
Q. Did he have any kind of equipment that you ever saw and-
A. Didn't he work once with some kinds of photography? He could use their equipment.
Q. I can't answer the question. I have to ask you the questions.
A. Oh, I am sorry about that.
Q. Did he ever have possession of any equipment for developing film that you know of?
A. I can honestly say I do not remember.
Q. I want to mark these two photographs. On the back of the first one, which I would ask be marked JFK committee exhibit No. 1, it says in the bottom right-hand corner copy from the National Archives, records group No. 272, under that it says CE-133B. I will ask that be marked JFK exhibit No. 1. (The above referred to photograph was marked JFK committee exhibit No. 1 for identification.)
Q. New, this second picture that I will ask to be marked says copy from the National Archives, record group No. 272, CE-133. I would ask that this be marked JFK committee exhibit No. 2. (The above referred to photograph was marked JFK committee exhibit No. 2 for identification.)
By Mr. KLEIN:
Q. I will show you those two photographs which are marked JFK exhibit No. 1 and exhibit No. 2, do you recognize those two photographs?
A. I sure do. I have seen them many times.
Q. What are they?
A. That is the pictures that I took.
Q. What do you recall as far as the circumstances leaking up to you taking these pictures and when you actually took them and what happened?
A. I do believe it was a weekend and he asked me to take a picture of him and I refused because I don't know how to take pictures. That is the only pictures I ever took in my whole life. So we argued over it and I thought the pose, or whatever he was wearing was just horrible, but he insisted that I just click, just push the button and I believe I did it twice and that was it. I do not know whether he developed them, at home or somewhere else, I have no idea.
Q. What is he wearing in those photographs and what is he holding?
A. What was a surprise for me was for him to hold his rifle and a pamphlet, some kind of newspaper. It puzzled me, it was a ridiculous way to pose for a picture.
Q. Does he also have a pistol in his arm?
A. I don't see that, it looks like it-yes, I see now.
Q. And you recall testifying about these same two photographs when you testified to the Warren Commission?
A. Yes; I remember them asking if I ever took the pictures and I had completely forgotten because it was only once in my life and I didn't know who to take pictures. Yes, when they showed me that, yes, I did take the pictures.
Q. The camera you took them on, was that Lee Harvey Oswald's camera?
A. I believe so.
Q. Was it the same one he had in Russia or a different one, do you know?
A. I don't know, but I do believe it could be the same.
Q. What did he tell you to do with the camera as far as taking the pictures?
A. He just told me which button to push and I did.
Q. Did you hold it up to your eye and look through the viewer to take the picture?
A. Yes.
Q. And after you took the picture what did you do after you took the first picture?
A. I went into the house and did things I had to attend to.
Q. How many pictures did you take?
A. I think I took two.
Q. When you took the first picture you held it up to your eye?
A. Yes; that is what I recall.
Q. What did you do next?
A. I believe he did something with it and told me to push it again.
Q. The first time you pushed it down to take the picture?
A. Yes.
Q. And the first time, what happened before you took the second picture?
A. He changed his pose.
Q. What I am getting at is, did you give the camera to him so he would move the film forward or did you do that?
A. He did that.
Q. So you took the picture and handed the camera to him?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he do?
A. He said, "Once again," and I did it again.
Q. So he have you back the camera?
A. For the second time; yes.
Q. Did he put the rifle down?
A. You see, that is the way I remember it.
Q. Did he put the rifle down on the ground between--
A. I don't remember. I was so annoyed with all this procedure so the sooner I could get through, the better, so I don't recollect.
Q. But you do remember taking the picture?
A. Yes; I am the one who took the picture and the weather was right.
Q. What did you say?
A. Somebody speculated the picture couldn't be taken; the weather was wrong.
Q. I am not interested in what people speculated.
A. There is nobody to blame for it but me.
Q. When you took the first picture and you gave him the camera, did you walk over to him and give him the camera or did he walk over to you?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Are these the only two pictures you ever took in your life at least up to that time?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you taken any pictures since then?
A. I try at home, to photograph the kids at home with a Poloroid camera. They didn't come out right.
Q. When you took the picture did he tell you to hold your hands steady?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you try to do that?
A. Yes.
Q. After you took the two pictures-were there just two that you took?
A. Yes; as far as I remember.
Q. When you say as far as you remember, could there have been more than you took?
A. I don't think so. You mean the same day, if that is the only pictures?
Q. The same day at the same time you sure you only took two?
A. I remember I clicked the thing twice. If it was four times or six times, I don't have any more pictures to prove it. I remember definitely two.
Q. Could it have been more than two?
A. If it could be more, I would tell you I remember, it was four times or a whole hour.
Q. I am asking are you sure it was two or are you not sure, or it was at least two?
A. At least two. I am not sure because I do not remember all the details. I remember definitely two and it wasn't clothers changing and another session.
Q. What I am getting at is are you sure you didn't take three, for example?
A. No; I am not sure.
Q. Do you know what he did with the film after these pictures were taken?
A. No; I don't.
Q. Did there come a time when he showed you photographs? In other words, when he had the film developed and showed you the photographs?
A. I really don't remember that. He probably did.
Q. You don't remember if he ever showed them to you?
A. There is a lot of things I don't remember by now.
Q. I am just asking, I am not saying you should or shouldn't remember, I am just trying to clarify what you are saying. Are you saying you don't know if you ever saw these pictures while he was alive and you were with him?
A. Right now it is not clear in my memory. I have seen the pictures so many times, I don't know if it was the Warren Commission report, the news media, or I saw them at the apartment.
Q. You are not sure when you first saw the pictures?
A. I am not sure.
Q. Do you know if you ever saw them in his presence, that is Lee Harvey Oswald?
A. I do not remember right now. But I did, in the testimony before the warren commission, if I said I did, I did.
Q. But do you have any recollection now?
A. No; I don't
Q. Do you have any recollection of him ever saying anything about these particular poses or the photographs?
A. Let me turn back what strikes my memories, George de Mohrenschildt came--I am not trying to confuse you, you know, give you a false statement. I try to get my memory to go. What strikes me, I think I was surprised that he showed pictures to George de Mohrenschildt because I thought the rifle and the gun, first of all I was always against it so, if in my memory I remember being surprised at him showing pictures like that to George, so apparently I saw them at the apartment.
Q. You remember him showin the pictures to George?
A. Something strikes my memory that how dare he show pictures like that to a friend.
Q. Would you think about it for a few moments and tell me if you can remember anything else about him showing either or both of these photographs to George de Mohrenschildt?
A. I don't want to cast shadows on somebody that is maybe innocent and comments they maybe did not make.
Q. I am not asking you to say anything good or bad about Mr. De Mohrenschildt, just simply tell me if you remember that particular incident, him showing these pictures to George de Mohrenschildt.
A. It is so hard to dig in your memory 13 years ago.
Q. Take your time.
A. I vaguely remember because it still strikes my memory it surprised me that he showed them to him, so apparently it was at the apartment.
Q. When he was arrested and you spoke to him at the jail, did he say anything about these photographs?
A. No.
Q. May I be excused for a second?
A. At this time it is approximately 5 minutes after 12, and at the request of Mrs. Porter we will take a break for a few minutes. (A short recess was taken)
By Mr. KLEIN:
Q. I is now approximately 10 minutes after 12. I didn't speak to you at all during the break, did I?
A. No; I didn't see you during the break.
Q. You left the room?
A. Yes.
Q. The same people are present, Clifford Fenton, Mrs, McGrath, myself, and you, you being Marina Oswald Porter. When you took that break I was asking you some questions about these two photographs which we marked JFK exhibit 1 and JFK exhibit 2. I just wanted to clarify one thing. You said that Lee Harvey Oswald was the one who moved the film forward after you took the first picture?
A. Yes; I did.
Q. Do you recall exactly what happened? You snapped the first picture; did you give him the camera at the point?
A. I don't remember. I think I did. I probably did because I don't know what to do with it and he insisted on the second take so he had to do whatever had to be done with the camera.
Q. So you didn't.
A. I didn't know the procedure to take one picture from the other.
Q. So to move it forward, you must have given him the camera; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall whether you were standing in the same place when you took both of these pictures?
A. I think I was.
Q. What is the address where these pictures were taken?
A. I don't know.
Q. Where was it?
A. It is in Dallas. I think it is the Oak Leaf area.
Q. You were also telling us that you remember that he showed one or both of these photographs to George de Mohrenschildt; is that right?
A. I vaguely remember or try to remember.
Q. Do you remember anything about that, what was said, who was present?
A. I do not remember what was said but I believe George and G-E-A-N-E-A, his wife, were there.
Q. What did you say?
A. I am trying to clear my memory. I do not remember the details of the conversation, but why I think I remember this incident was I was surprised at him showing these pictures to George.
Q. Do you recall anything he said to George when he showed them to him?
A. No; I don't.
Q. Do you have any knowledge of what happened to the originals of these photographs?
A. I assume the Warren Commission or FBI or police have them.
Q. Do you have any knowledge of what happened to them after Lee Oswald had them developed?
A. What happened to them?
Q. What he did with them.
A. He probably kept them in his closet where he kept all his junk.
Q. Do you know that or are you just guessing?
A. I am just guessing because I didn't have them among my things or anywhere around, lying around the living room or bedroom.
Q. To your knowledge, were any copies make of these photographs before the assassination?
A. No; I don't. I can see the position of his hands are changed.
Q. Do you know whether Lee Harvey Oswald might have given a copy of this photograph to anybody?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did he ever speak to you about these photographs at any time after taking them?
A. No. What was there to talk about?
Q. And you never had a copy of either of these photographs?
A. Apparently they were in the apartment.
Q. I am saying did you have the original or a copy of these photographs before the assassination?
A. Apparently they were at the apartment.
Q. I am saying personally--
A. Me as a memento, no.
Q. Did you ever possess a copy of these photographs, have it in your possession?
A. For me to keep?
Q. Yes.
A. Not that I remember. I wasn't that enthused about these pictures. Q. Did you ever write anything on the back of either the original or a copy of one of these photographs?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever write a note or anything to George de Mohrenschildt on the back of the original or a copy?
A. No.
Q. Are you sure of that?
A. Yes.
Q. Who had the money in your family?
A. Lee.
Q. Who possessed it?
A. He did.
Q. He possessed it?
A. Yes.
Q. To your knowledge did he ever come up with money that was unaccounted for, you know, all of a sudden he had more money than he should have?
A. He just gave me a grocery allowance; that is all I had.
Q. Were you aware of how much money he had at any time?
A. No; it is not my habit to go and check through somebody's pockets. I knew there was some money he tried to save but I never went and tried to count, unless he told me to.
Q. Did you ever see him with an amount of money or did he give you an amount of money and you wondered where did he get that much money?
A. No.
Q. Do you recall that when you left Moscow that he sighned a promissory note to the U.S. Embassy there for $435?
A. He told me about it, that he had to borrow money from the Government.
Q. He paid that back; is that correct?
A. To my knowledge he did.
Q. Are you aware that he paid $10 a month for a number of months but then in December 1962 he paid $190?
A. No; I don't know about that. I know he paid little by little by little. Anyway, we had to save for it to pay it.
Q. Are you aware of that, that he paid $190 at one time?
A. No.
Q. Then January 9, 1963, about a month later from December 11, 1962, a month later he paid $100?
A. I don't know that.
Q. Then January 29, 1963, 20 days later, he paid $106?
A. I am not aware of that.
Q. Does it surprise you from a period of December 11, 1962, to January 29, 1963, which is approximately 1 1/2 months, he was able to pay-
A. Does it surprise me right now?
Q. Almost $400. Does it surprise you that he could pay almost $400 in 1 1/2 months?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this the first time that you ever learned about it, right now?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have any idea how he could have come up with that much money?f
A. No.
Q. Did he ever mention to you paying off this note?
A. I have just little peanuts he gave to me. How much was left I don't know.
Q. Does this seem like a lot of money for him to pay off in a month and a half?
A. Yes.
Q. From your knowledge of his finances?
A. Yes. How much did he make per week, do you know?
Q. Do you know how much he made per week?
A. He told me like $55 a weed, then another job was $65 a week; that is what I remember.
Q. Now, if that was his salary, you don't have any knowledge of how he came up with the sums I just mentioned?
A. No; I don't remember anybody giving him the money or he had an extra job where he earned the money. I could guess maybe his brother lent it to him, the money to pay the debt.
Q. If he would have had an extra job, would it be fair to say you would have known about that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you think it would be possible to have an extra job without your knowing about it?
A. No, because then he would have to come later from work than he would come. If he had na extra job, he would let me know.
Q. So you would have known if he had an extra job?
A. Yes. His brother was very helpful, so that could be the source of his extra money.
Q. Did your husband ever mention the name Hunt; H-U-N-T ?
A. No.
Q. Are you sure?
A. Yes. Right now I am sure, if I said before than maybe I just don't remember the name.
Q. Did you ever hear about a letter-withdraw that.
A. That he supposedly wrote?
Q. I don't want to hear what the media may have said, I want to know if you have any knowledge of him writing a letter to anybody hamed Hunt?
A. No.
Q. Did he write many letters to people?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever see him writing a letter to anybody?
A. To his mother while we were in Russia.
Q. Other than in Russia?
A. He wrote to our friends in Russia.
Q. Did he enjoy writing?
A. Yes; I think so.
Q. When you met him in Russia, what kind of work was he doing?
A. He was working at a radio factory. It is something equivalent to our Texas Instruments right here.
Q. What did he do in particular, do you know?
A. I know it was a very plain job. Some kind of mechanical job.
Q. Is it correct that when you testified to the Warren Commission you said that he was living in an apartment in Russia and that you had always dreamed about that particular apartment?
A. Yes.
Q. How did you suppose he had enough income to pay the rent for that apartment?
A. In Russia you don't pay as much for your apartment, you pay only a certain portion of your salary. If you make $400, you pay $40 for the same apartment, if you make $600, you pay $60.
Q. It was not unusual he could afford that apartment?
A. No. It was unusual for young men without family to live in an apartment like that, but they usually granted better positions for a foreigner in Russia.
Q. Was it unusual for single foreigner to live in an apartment like that?
A. No, it was not unusual for a single foreigner but, if he was Russian, he would not live in an apartment like that.
Q. Did he have many Russian friends?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember his closest friends?
A. I remember one name-there was one young man who visited us quite often-maybe you can help me to remember the name, I don't remember.
Q. I don't have the name.
A. All the names I mentioned in the Warren Commission. He had one that I don't think I ever met, maybe once, or maybe never met, but he mentioned him, that he spoke to him at work, then one that visited us. Then he had-we had close friends that I met through him, Mr. Ziger.
Q. Could you spell that as best you could?
A. Z-I-G-E-R. Mr. Ziger.
Q. This is a friend--
A. They were immigrants from Argentina.
Q. He knew them in the United States?
A. He knew them before and through him I met them.
Q. In Russia?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he correspond with any people in Russia after coming with you to the United States?
A. I think so.
Q. Did he write them letters?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they write him letters?
A. I do believe we received some mail.
Q. Do you know what happened to those letters?
A. No; I wrote some of my friends and I got answers but, after all this happened, my letters never go through.
Q. I am not as much interested right now in your letters, I want to know did he write letters to his friends in Russia?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall the names of any people who he wrote ot or who wrote him?
A. I think it is the same friends that we had before, I have fort the names.
Q. Did he ever say anything about these letters that he received from them or what he said to them?
A. It was just a friendly contact and, of course, we discussed it when we crceived the letters back.
Q. Were you allowed to read the letters he received?
A. They were written in Russian language.
Q. You speak Russian, so did he show the letters to you or just tell you about them?
A. Yes.
Q. He showed you the letters?
A. Yes; but I don't remember what they were about or who from, it wasn't anything so important.
Q. Are you now a citizen of the United States?
A. I am not. I would love to be.
Q. Is there a reason why you are not at this time?
A. The only reason is my own, because I do not take the time to study the Constitution and keep up with the politics, up to date, and with a busy household you don't have time really to sit down and study and I don't want to fail the exams, it is very embarrassing.
Q. Has anybody ever indicated to you that you couldn't become a citizen?
A. I don't believe-in the earlier testimonies to the FBI sometimes when I was very difficult and didn't want to answer the questions, sometimes it has come up, "Well, would you like to live in this country?" I felt it was a little threat. I didn't know if I had a constitutional right to anything then.
Q. You testified about that to the Warren Commission?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Since you testified before the warren commission has anybody else ever made that same suggestion to you?
A. No.
Q. You are familiar with Pricilla Johnson?
A. Sure.
Q. How do you know her?
A. Oh, I met her when she came here with the offer to write a book about my life and we worked for quite a few months together. I gave her all the information that she needed. That was 13 years ago.
Q. When did you first meet her?
A. Thirteen years ago, I don't remember the exact date.
Q. Where?
A. She--I believe she came to my house.
Q. In Russia?
A. No; right here.
Q. In Texas?
A. Yes.
Q. Why did she come, what was the purpose?
A. I had many offers from differnt writers to write the book and I didn't think it was right for me to do so. I was embarrassed. She keep sending telegrams and telephone calls, she would like to meet me and we talk things over. I still refused. Finally, later on she told me she decided to see me in person and, when we met, I liked her, so agreed. There was an agreement between us, I gave her information so she could write a book.
Q. Was it the first time you ever met her or saw her after the assassination?
A. Yes.
Q. Did she ever indicate to you she had met your husband?
A. Yes.
Q. What did she say?
A. She said when she worked in Russia for some magazine, she worked there for a year or two, and she would like to have an interview with Lee, but he granted it ot another lady reporter instead of her. She spoke but full Russian, so that was another point that helped me to make up my mink she is the right person.
Q. This book that is coming out, I believe you have a book coming out next month?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there anything in that book which relates to Lee Harvey Oswald or to the assassination of the President which you have not told the Warren commission and which you have not told me? What I mean is something about Lee Harvey Oswald which relates to the assassination of the President?
A. I don't know, I didn't read the book.
Q. You know what you told Priscilla Johnson.
A. I told her everything I know. I told everything I know to the Warren Commission.
Q. I am saying in sitting down for these many months and telling her everything you know, did you come across anything that might have popped into your mind you might have forgotten about when you were talking about the book?
A. I would have to read the book, the Warren Commission report and see if I forgot to put it there, things like that.
Q. Just give me 1 moment. I asked you before whether you had any contacts since the assassination with any U.S. Government agency. Have you had any contacts since the assassination with any foreign, with any agencies of any foreign governments.
A. No.
Q. Had you had any contacts since coming to the United States with Lee Harvey Oswald, were you ever contacted by any agency of the Soviet Government?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever contacted by any agent of the Cuban Government?
A. No.
Q. You testified before the Warren Commission that the name Hidell was used because it rhymed with Fidel?
A. I assumed that.
Q. You assumed that?
A. I think we discussed that and I just jokingly made that, "Because it is Fidel" and he said yes.
Q. Fore the record, somebody just opened the door and asked if somebody else was here, and who was not here. That was a 1-moment interruption. On these two pictures I have shown to you, committee exhibit 1 and committee exhibit 2, can you give us an estimate, the best you can, how much time elapsed between the time the first picture was taken and the second picture was taken?
A. No; I can't.
Q. Did you know how much a minute is?
A. OK, it could be 5 minutes. I don't know how long it takes to do whatever is supposed to be done.
Q. You don't have any idea how long it took?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever taken-you said you have tried to take pictures since this time of your children, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. When you took pictures, did you ever move the film forward?
A. No; I have a Polaroid camera, that is the only one I can use. I don't believe how many pictured I ruined.
Q. Do you recall when you took these photographs about how far away from him you were standing when you took it?
A. I know the little yard, the back yard wasn't very big. No; I don't know in feet.
Q. Let me say this, the distance I am standing away from you now, do you think this was more or less than when you took those photographs?
A. I wouldn't speculate. I don't know how many feet.
Q. You are just not sure?
A. No. The place still exists, you can measure it. I think it exists.
Q. The camera that you took the photographs with, do you know what happened to that camera?
A. No.
Q. Do you know where he bought the camera?
A. No. I think that that is the camera he brought with him from America and kept it in Russia and brought it back.
Q. Do you know what happened to it?
A. When they confiscated everything, they took it. I don't know.
Q. Were there any other photographs you possessed that were taken with that camera?
A. I don't possess anything anymore, everything was confiscated, so if I have pictures of my children, or whatever there were, they are from Archives, everything was there.
Q. Were there any other pictures taken from you that were taken with the same camera?
A. Yes.
Q. What kind?
A. I don't know if it was the same camera, I assume it was that one.
Q. Did you ever see him with any other camera?
A. No. I do believe the pictures were taken in Russia of our friends, or my baby, or me with that same camera, but it is for experts to figure it out if it is the same camera.
Q. And those pictures you believe the Archives have?
A. Yes. i do not remember him purchasing a new camera in the United States.
Q. This camera, do you recall whether to take pictures with this camera, you would look down into the viewfinder or whether you would hold the camera up to your eye and look straight ahead?
A. I just recall I think it is straight.
Q. You would put the camera up by your eye?f
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what color the camera was?
A. I think it was black.
Q. Do you remember anything else about it?
A. Not the name; no. But again, since I am not expert with the camera, that is what I remember, I think?
Q. As I told you when we began, the entire statement has been taken down on that stenotype machine. Mrs. McGrath is going to transcribe the statement and it will be typed out so that you or anybody can read it.
A. Will that be a matter of public record?
Q. When it is typed out, it will be sent, an original copy will be sent to you and you will be asked to read everything and after you read everything, if it is correct, if it is correctly transcribed, what you said today, you will be asked to sigh and verify-there will be a little form which you would be asked to sign saying that transcript is fair and accurate account of your statement. You will be given a copy to keep of the statement.
A. OK.
Q. Then when you sign it your will send back the signed statement that it is accurate. Now, if it is not an accurate account, that is, if when you read it there is something in there which is incorrect, that is something that you didn't say, there is an error, then I will ask you to call me up. You have my phone number and you can call me collect. What will have to happen is that we will go back before a magistrate, just like the gentleman who swore you in and you will have to swear to the changes.
A. OK.
Q. If you call me I will arrange this if there are any inaccuracies in the transcript. Now, at this point, is there anything that you would like to say at all?
A. Yes, may I ask you a question?
Q. Sure.
A. For my own curiosity, what did you try to establish, a lost camera or that two cameras took the pictures?
Q. No; as I stated at the very, very beginning, we have read your testimony from the Warren Commission report and in some areas either a particular subject matter was not discussed, or it was discussed, it was not discussed in the detail we would have liked to have seen it discussed. It was in these areas, a number of them, I hoped to have asked you questions to clarify and get more information in these areas which we-
A. OK but, since you dwelled so long on the subject, what detail did you try to establish?
Q. I wasn't trying to establish anything, simply to try to get as much information as I could about certain points which were of interest to us, not a question of establishing simply trying to get--
A. I don't see how many feet away would make any difference.
Q. Just trying to get as much information as I could in certain subject areas, one was the photographs, others which came up during the course of the interrogation.
A. I am just curious whether somebody switched.
Q. If there is nothing further, then thank you very much. The time is now approximately 12:47 p.m. and that is the end of the statement.
A. Thank you. That was short.
(Whereupon, at 12:47 p.m., the hearing was concluded)

CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER

I, Jewel E. McGrath, shortand reporter, do hereby certify that the testimony of the witness which appears in the foregoing deposition was taken by me in shortand and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction, that said deposition is a true record of the testimony given by said witness; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this deposition was taken, and further that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the parties thereto, or financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.

Jewel E. McGrath _______________________
Shorthand Reporter

DEPOSITION
WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 9, 1978 U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATION,
Washington, D.C.

Deposition of Marina Oswald Porter called for examination by counsel for the committee, pursuant ot notice, in the offices of the committee, House Annex No. 2, Third and D Streets SW., Washington, D.C., beginning at 9:30 a.m., before Annabelle Short, a notary public in and for the District of Columbia, when were present of behalf of the respective parties:

For the committee: James Wolf, counsel; Gary Cornwell, deputy chief counsel; Mrs. Caryl Emanuel, administrative assistant to Mr. Wolf; Ms. Surell Brady, staff; James McDonald, counsel; and James M. Leahy, National Archives.

For the witness: James Hamilton, counsel.

Mr. WOLF. It should be noted the time now is 9:30 and it is August 9, 1978. We are in the offices of the House Select Committee on Assassinations in Washington, D.C., in the office of the deputy chief counsel, Gary Cornwell. Present at the time are Gary cornwell, James Wolf, Surell Brady, members of the select committee staff, James Hamilton, and Marina Oswald Porter.
Mr. HAMILTON. May I make a correction to that?
Mr. WOLF. Surely.
Mr. HAMILTON. I believe Mrs. Porter's name now is Mrs. Kenneth Porter or Mrs. Marina Porter.
Mr. WOLF. I would ask at the current time that the court reporter administer an oath to Mrs. Porter. (Whereupon, Marina Porter was called as a witness by the committee and, having been first duly sworn by the notary public, was examined and testified as follows:)
Mr. WOLF. Mr. Hamilton, I believe I have previously given you copies of the committee's rules and the committee resolutions, is that correct?
Mr. HAMILTON. That is correct.

DIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. WOLF:

Q. Mrs. porter, you are not under a subpena for the giving of the statement, is that correct?
A. That is right.
Q. I would ask that all your responses that you gove today be from your present memory and not from what has been written in the literature since 1963. If you have any question, if you don't understand any question I pose, I would ask that you just state that on the record and I will try and clarify my question. You have previously given the committee one deposition and the same procedure will be followed with this. We will give you a copy of this deposition and ask you to read it and verify it and then return it to us. At that time we will give you a copy of the deposition for your permanent records. Do you understand?
A. Yes.
Q. For the record I should say that pursuant to the committee rules I have been designated by the committee as a counsel authorized to take statements under oath.
Mrs. Porter, what was the first time that you met Lee Harvey Oswald?
A. When?
Q. Yes.
A. It was in Minsk, Russia, in 1960-I don't remember exactly, 1961 or 1962.
Q. What were the circumstances of that meeting?
A. I met him at a dance. I was a medical school event.
Q. How did you happen to go to that dance?f
A. I was invited by a student from the medical school to attend and I was introduced to Lee by a mutual friend.
Q. Who was the friend that introduced you?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Could his name have been Yure Mereginsky? (phonetic) I could be.
Q. do you recall that name?
A. I recall the name.
Q. Who was the individual?
A. As far as i remember right now he knew Lee and he was introduced to me first and then he introduced Lee to me.
Q. You did not know him before that dance?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember who was the person who introduced you to Yuri?
A. no, I don't.
Q. What did Yure Mereginsky (phonetic) do?
A. Well, young people met sometimes in the street and talked or invited you to their house, yes.
Q. What types of things did you do together with him?
A. We usually talked or listened to the music or just strolled in the street or in the park.
Q. Do you recall any discussions you had with him about what topics you talked about?
A. Well, since Lee was an American, of course young people were very interested in life in other foreign countries so that was usually the discussion, about how is the life in America.
Q. Was he a native of Minsk?
A. I don't know.
Q. He was a student though?
A. He was living in Minsk at the time.
Q. How did he introduce you to Lee?
A. He introduced him as Alex Oswald, a friend of his.
Q. A friend of his?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he say how he knew Lee?
A. Not at the moment of introduction.
Q. Did he later say how he knew lee?
A. I do not recall.
Q. Was Lee a close friend of his or was he a casual acquaintance?
A. Just casual.
Q. Did Lee spend a lot of time with him when you were not present that you know of?
A. I don't know about that.
Q. Did Lee discuss him frequently?
A. His name was mentioned occasionally if he would bump into him sometime or visit him.
Q. What would Lee saw about him when he was discussing him?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Did he ever discuss with you how he became knowledgable in obtaining a visa to get into Russia?
A. He told me that he entered Finland as a tourist and went to the Russian Embassy and asked them for a tourist visa and they granted it and then he decided to stay.
Q. He asked the Russian Embassy in Finland for a tourist visa?
A. That is what he told me.
Q. Did he go directly to Russia from Finland?
A. I assume he did.
Q. Have you heard that he went from Finland to London prior to going to Russia?
A. I don't think so.
Q. You never heard that before?
A. If I heard it, I don't remember right now.
Q. Lee never discussed with you staying in London at any time during his travels?
A. I don't recall that.
Q. Did Lee ever discuss with you how he knew the procedures for somebody who was an American to defect once they got into Russia?
A. Well, he did not discuss procedure in detail like you would like me to answer. Like the procedure, I do not know but he said when he was staying in Russia as a tourist they did not permit him to stay any longer so he said that he just give up his citizenship in order to stay.
Q. Did you ask him how he decided what steps to take at that time?
A. Pardon me?
Q. Did you ask him subsequently how did he know what to do?
A. Well, not really.
Q. Did he ever talk to you about it?
A. He probably did.
Q. What did he say to you about it?
A. Well, I guess there is lots of redtape in Russia. You just have to go visit them and big with them and plead with them.
Q. That was to obtain Russian citizenship?
A. Yes; there are lots of official papers to fill out.
Q. If you were a tourist in Russia, would you know what department or what office to go to to try to obtain Russian citizenship?
A. I don't know.
Q. Is that generally known?
A. I would not think so.
Q. Excuse me?
A. I don't think so. I assume that you go to the Special Ministry of Internal Affairs or Foreign Affairs, something like that.
Q. Did Lee ever discuss with you his trips to the American Embassy when he was trying to defect?
A. A little bit.
Q. What did he say about them?
A. Well, I cannot tell you in detail. He had a discussion with the American Ambassador or representative of the American Government.
Q. What did he say about his discussions with the American representative?
A. Well, he told him that he could like to stay and he said he just throwed the passport on the table in front of them and Excuse me. May I confer with my counsel?
Q. Surely. (At this point the witness conferred with counsel.)
A. After that he went to the Russian authorities and asked them for political asylum.
By Mr. WOLF:
Q. That was after he had gone to the American Embassy?
A. That is what I recall right now.
Q. Did he mention to you the names of any of the Russian officials he dealt with?
A. Later on when I have to go through all this legal procedure to apply for my visa he told me the name of the man that he talked with before but I forget the name right now, but he told me that was the same man he talked to before.
Q. What was that man's position?
A. I do not remember.
Q. Do you know what office he was with?
A. No. It was very scary to go through all this, policemen standing outside.
Q. What did he say about the Soviet officials questioning him when he went to see that Soviet official?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Did you ask any questions about why he wanted to stay in Russia?
A. I don't know.
Q. When he discussed going to the American Embassy, what did he say about the attitude of the American official after he had thrown his passport down?
A. I don't recall what exactly he said.
Q. What were the names of the officials he met there?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't remember?
A. I don't remember. I did know at the time.
Q. Did Lee ever mention being asked questions by the secret police, the KGB?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Would that surprise you if he was asked questions by them?
A. No.
Q. You would assume they would question him?
A. Well, I will assume, of course.
Q. Did Lee discuss with you his suicide atempt when he was trying to obtain Soviet citizenship?
A. No.
Q. He never discussed that with you?
A. No.
Q. When did that first come to your attention?
A. After the assassination.
Q. Did you ever notice the scar that he had on his wrist?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ask him how he obtained it?
A. I did and he said he didn't want to talk about it.
Q. Any you didn't ask him any further questions?
A. Well, I did a few times. I was curious, but it put him in a very bad mood or upset so I just dropped the subject.
Q. Did Lee ever tell you why he thought he was allowed to stay in the Soviet Union?
A. If he did, I don't remember right now.
Q. Why do you think he was allowed to stay in the soviet Union?
A. I really don't know. Maybe one of their good moods. You never know with Russians.
Q. After you met Lee at the dance for the first time, what was the next occasion that you saw him?
A. Well, it is so many years ago. I do believe he called me in the next few days.
Q. He called you?
A. yes.
Q. Did he call you on the phone?
A. yes.
Q. How did he obtain your phone number?
A. He asked me when he took me home after the dance and I have it to him.
Q. How often did you see Lee in the 2 to 3 weeks after that first dance? Did you meet him frequently?
A. I don't remember.
Q. What subject were discussed when you were the first starting to date him?
A. Oh, we went to the shows and we discussed friends, and I was asking him questions about America, of course.
Q. I did not hear.
A. I was asking questions about America, how the Americans live.
Q. What type of questions would you ask about America?
A. Well, about the schools and professions and the price of food and if it is pretty plentiful right here.
Mr. WOLF. For the record it should be noted that Mrs. Caryl Emanuel has just entered the room who is na administrative assistant to myself.
By Mr. WOLF:
Q. After you were dating Lee, when was the first time that he discussed the possibility of marrying you?
A. Only a short time before we were married.
Q. Approximately how short a time was that?
A. A month and a half.
Q. What was your reaction the first time he discussed being married?
A. Pardon me?
Q. What was your reaction the first time he discussed getting married?
A. Well, I asked him, since he is American, would he have the desire or possibility to go back to the United States and he said no, he will be living in Russia.
Q. Is he the one who brought up the subject of marriage or did you bring it up?
A. Well, I really don't remember how things happened. It is so many years ago.
Q. At that time you were dating him quite frequently after a month's time?
A. Yes.
Q. How soon after you first discussed getting married with Lee did you in fact get married?
A. We had to wait- I do not recall how many days or maybe a month, maybe a week--for permission to get married and then it was granted.
Q. Did you tell anybody of your decision to marry Lee prior to your application for marriage?
A. Of course I did. I had to ask my aunt and uncle if they object or not.
Q. What was their reaction?
A. Well, not a very pleasant one. My uncle told me I'm a big girl right now and if that is what I want he really was against it somewhat but he said even if he said no I will do it anyway so I might as well have his blessings.
Q. Which uncle was that?
A. Uncle Ilya.
Q. Were you living with your uncle at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. What position did he hold?
A. Well, he was not a colonel yet. What is before that?
Mr. HAMILTON. A major.
The WITNESS A major, I guess.
Mr. HAMILTON. At least in the American Army.
By Mr. WOLF:
Q. In the Soviet Army?
A. No; he was working for MVD.
Q. And what is that?
A. Minister of Internal Affairs.
Q. What activities did they engage in?
A. As far as I know, he was an engineer by profession.
Q. Did he have an important position if that organization?
A. I assume he did.
Q. What were his responsibilities?
A. I don't know. He would never discuss his job at home.
Q. Did Lee, apart from the times he went to obtain Soviet citizenship, ever approach the Government of any other occasions?
A. Say that again, please.
Q. Did Lee, apart from the time he applied for Soviet citizenship, ever approach the Government on any other occasions?
A. I don't know.
Q. How would he have obtained the apartment he was living in?
A. Well, they have him a job in Minsk and sent him to work at the radio factory and nearby it was a building where the employees of this factory were living.
Q. I think so.
Q. And ass the apartments in that building were the same size?
A. I don't know. I never visited anybody except the lady upstairs once and her apartment was similar to ours.
Q. Was Lee's apartment larger than most others due to the fact that he was a foreigner?
A. No; it was not larger but it was conpletely private, a kitchen and bath in the hall.
Q. Did all the people who worked in that factory have the same type of apartment?
A. I don't think so. I told you I have only been in one, but I assume from conversations it all depends on the size of your family.
Q. Was it unusual for Lee to have an apartment all by himself?
A. I think so. I was not unusual in terms of a foreigner to have privileges, but for a young man to have an apartment of his own in Russia is quite unusual.
Q. Do you think your Uncle Ilya helped you and Lee when you were trying to move back to America to facilitate your leaving the country?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Would he have been in the position of being able to do that?
A. I don't know. He was against me leaving for America.
Q. But he had told you that he would not put himself in your way?
A. No; he didn't say that. He got angry with me and he just stayed out of it completely except on a few occasions he told me what a foolish thing I was doing.
Q. Did Lee own a rifle when you were living in Minsk?
A. I think so.
Q. What type of rifle was that?
A. I don't know anything about rifles.
Q. Did you ever see him use the rifle?
A. No.
Q. Where did you see the rifle?
A. It was in the apartment and he told me that he bolonged to some kind of hunting club at work.
Q. Was this before or after you married him?
A. After I married him.
Q. So the rifle was in the apartment?
A. It was there; yes.
Q. Where in the apartment was it kept?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Did Lee ever go hunting that you know of?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did he ever discuss hunting?
A. Well, when we were married he never went hunting but he said that he did go once with friends.
Q. What type of animal did he hunt?
A. Probably birds.
Q. Is it difficult to obtain a rifle in Russia?
A. It is illegal to possess a weapon in Russia. You have to have a permit, you have to be a policeman or some kind of military personnel or be a hunter.
Q. Is it difficult ot obtain a permit?
A. I don't know; I never tried.
Q. Did Lee have a permit for the gun?
A. Yes.
Q. you have seen the permit?
A. No.
Q. Do you know if he brought this rifle with him when he was returning to America?
A. I don't know.
Q. Who packed all your belongings when you made the decision to come back to America?
A. We both did.
Q. Was anything left behind in Russia?
A. yes, our furnishings.
Q. Who was that left with?
A. We sold it to people who were interested in buying it.
Q. Since you acquired a permit for the hun, Lee just could not leave the gun with somebody else; could he?
A. I don't know the procedure of it, what can be done.
Q. But you don't know what Lee did with the gun?
A. No.
Q. Do you know the difference between a rifle and a shotgun?
A. No.
Q. Could you describe the gun for us that he had there?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember anything about it?
A. No.
Q. It was definitely a rifle and not, for example, a handgun?
A. Yes.
Q. It was long?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately how long?
A. Please don't ask me these questions. I cannot describe something that I don't have a recollection of it.
Q. But it was a long rifle or some sort?
A. I never measured it. It was a large object.
Q. Where were you working when you first met Lee?
A. I was working at the local hospital drugstore.
Q. What was the name of the hospital you were working at?
A. I think city Hospital No. 3.
Q. What were your responsibilities at that hospital?
A. I was a pharmacist. I was preparing prescriptions for the patients.
Q. How did you come to live in Minsk?
A. Well, I finished pharmacy school in Leningrad and I was assigned to a job.
Q. Who assigned you to the job?
A. The school officials usually assigned students where to go so I had the job in the city of Leningrad but then I have personal difficulties with my stepfather and I felt like I was in the way so since I had relatives in Minsk, I just bought the ticket and went there.
Q. When you went to Minsk did you already have a job lined up in Minsk?
A. No; I did not have a transfer or a job waiting for me there.
Q. Did you ask when you were working in Leningrad for them to obtain a job for you in Minsk?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. I was not certain that I could have one . So with little connections and going from one office to another I got permission first to stay there. When you apply for a job you have to have permission to stay and it is difficult if you don't have one or the other. My aunt had connections.
Q. Which aunt is that?
A. It is another aunt. It is my mother's sister, Luba.
Q. Where was she living at that time?
A. She was living in Minsk with her husband in another apartment.
Q. How did you let her know you were coming?
A. Pardon me?
Q. How did you let her know you were coming? Did you phone them in advance or write in advance?
A. No; I just appeared at the doorstep and they were shocked.
Q. And you brought all of your belongings with you?
A. I didn't have very much to bring.
Q. You didn't intend returning to Leningrad though, did you?
A. Excuse me?
Q. Did you intend returning to Leningrad?
A. If I don't find a job I had to.
Mr. WOLF. We will now take a brief break while the court reporter swears in another witness in the adjoining room. (Whereupon, at 10:05 a.m., a recess was taken until 10:10 a.m.)
Mr. WOLF: The time is approximately 10:10 a.m., a recess was taken until 10:10 and the deposition will resume with all persons present except Caryl Emanuel at the present
By Mr. WOLF:
Q. Do you know what type of engineer your uncle was?
A. He finished--just a minute, please. College of Forestry Engineering. Does that sound right?
Q. What type of things did he do for that company?
A. No, not a company.
Q. The organization.
A. He usually worked with whatever concerned wood. Then the kids in college have exams he usually grades their papers. He was not a teacher.
Q. Did you uncle assist you in obtaining a residence permit when you got to Minsk?
A. Yes, he did. Since I had to live with him he had to sign the papers that he has room for me in his apartment.
Q. Who did those papers go to?
A. I think it is like a police or militia station in the city.
Q. Did he speak to anybody about your staying there as well as signing the papers?
A. I had to go alone. I went alone. He just signed the papers.
Q. Did he call anybody on the phone, do you know?
A. I don't know.
Q. Shortly after you met Lee, Lee was taken to the hospital; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What hospital was he taken to?
A. Just a city hospital.
Q. And that was one where both foreigners and-
A. No, no, no. No foreigners. Just a regular hospital.
Q. I am saying both foreigners and people who live there regularly would be taken there?
A. I assume. Athere were only three or four hospitals in the city. You just go to the one you like.
Q. Did Lee participate in any political activity when he was in Minsk?
A. What do you call political activity?
Q. Did he attend meetings where politics was discussed?
A. No.
Q. Did he listen to the radio when there were politicla discussions on?
A. Yes.
Q. What type of commentary would he make about the political discussions?
A. He usually listened to BBC and Voice of America on the radio and tried to compare what is said on the radio and what the Russian newspaper printed.
Q. Did Lee make any attempt to join groups or organizations which were engaged in political activity?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. When you said before that Lee sought political asylum, what exactly did you mean by that?
A. Just what I said. You have to file under some kind of category and I guess if you ask for political asylum you get more protection or at least Russia maybe they give you a place to stay, I guess.
Q. Were you surprised when you were allowed to leave Russia?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Why were you surprised?
A. Oh, it is very unusual for a Russian citizen to leave the Soviet Union.
Q. Is that any Russian citizen?
A. Yes, unless you are a diplomat and you had permission to travel abroad.
Q. Did your uncle speak to anybody about your leaving the Soviet Union?
A. To whom do you mean?
Q. Any government officials who might have asked him about it.
A. Not that I know of.
Q. You were a member of what organizations when you were in Minsk?
A. I was more or less forced to become a member of the Komsomol organization. That is a youth organization. Prior to becoming a party member you do have to belong to this organization but no everybody who belongs becomes a party member.
Q. Did you want to become a Communist Party member?
A. Heavens no.
Q. How do you say you more or less forced to become a member?
A. Well, at work everybody belonged to a professional union and everybody belonged to this. Well, it is not really pressure put on but they ask you to fill out some application and things like that, so I filled out the application and I was accepted, I assume. I paid the dues but I never attended the meetings.
Q. You never went to one of their meetings?
A. No.
Q. Did you remain a member of that until you left Minsk?
A. No. I got publicly discharged at one of the meetings; it was the only one I attended when they asked me to come and accused me of not ever attending and being a bad membe of the organization and i was not qualified.
Q. When was that?
A. That was after I was married to Lee.
Q. After you were married to Lee?
A. Yes.
Q. Was your marriage to Lee discussed at that meeting?
A. Not at that particular meeting but I felt at work kind of a cold wind, you know. Not isolation but-I don't know how to describe it but I know that they did not very much approve of my marriage to a foreigner.
Q. In the book the Priccilla MacMillan Johnson has written called "Marina and Lee" you say the members warned you that Lee might be a spy.
A. It was an accusation like at the last meeting when they told me I could not be a member any more. I was just like confidential talk and during the lunch hour.
Q. What was your reaction?
A. Pardon?
Q. What was your reaction when they accused Lee of being a spy?
A. Well, I just really ignored it. It kind of upset me.
Q. It upset you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you discuss the possibility of living with a spy with your uncle?
A. It seems to me in Russia everybody keeps their ears open and are afraid of what the might say.
Mr. WOLF. For the record it should be noted that caryl Emmanuel has just reentered the room.
By Mr. WOLF:
Q. Was it common for members to be expelled from Komsomol?
A. No. Occasionally this happened when the members are-for example, when young people misbehaved themselves like the alcoholics or they have fits or are dishonest or things like that.
Q. On your entry visa to the United States you did to list that you were a member of Komsomol. Why is that?
A. Lee told me that it would be difficult for me if I listed any of the --excuse me. I did not phrase myself right. I don't know how to put it but anyway he told me that because Americans don't know what kind of organization it is the will probably think that maybe they will be against it so it is better for me not to like it. Actually I was only a member on a piece of paper. That is all.
Q. And at the meeting when you were expelled, was there a formal vote to expel you?
A. Yes.
Q. What were the grounds listed for your expulsion?
A. I was not a desirable member.
Q. Why were you not a desirable member?
A. They said that I did not pay my dues, I didn't care for it, I am antisocial in my behavior.
Q. Did they ask you about your marriage to Lee in that meeting?
A. No. If they did, I do not recall.
Q. Was Lee present at that meeting?
A. No.
Q. Was Lee's apartment characteristic of the apartments furnished to foreigners living in the Soviet Union? I did not have the experience with the apartments that foreigners occupy, so I cannot compare.
Q. Was he also given money by the Government?
A. Yes, he was.
Q. Why was that?
A. I assume that is was typical of Russians to give compensation for the foreign resident, foreign citizen who lived there because maybe make them more comfortable to live in Russia.
Q. Do you know whether foreigners received money from the Government other than Lee?
A. No.
Q. Do you know of any other foreigners who did not receive money
A. No. I didn't know many foreigners. I just knew Lee.
Q. You assumed that was common practice?
A. Yes.
Q. While in Russia did you and Lee hear President Kennedy speak over the radio?
A. Well, I heard but I don't know what it was about because I did not speak English but Lee was listening to it and I was present in the room.
Q. Did you know who it was, who was speaking?
A. He told me; yes.
Q. What did Lee say at that time?
A. He was very proud of the new President of his country.
Q. Did Lee ever mention his experience in the Marines when you were living in Russia?
A. Only his Japanese girl friend that he mentioned.
Q. Who was that?
A. I don't remember her name.
Q. What did he say about her?
A. That she was very nice and that she was a very good cook and that she prepared special dishes for him, that he was pampered.
Q. Did Lee ever mention Governor Connally while you were living in Minsk?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. What did he say?
A. As far as I recall right now I think he wrote a letter to Mr. Connally asking for help to return to the United States and when the letter arrived it was a big large white envelope, I think, with the Connally picture on it as a stamp or anyway the picture of Mr. Connally on the envelope.
Q. You are saying Mr. Connally responded to the letter?
A. I assume it was because the letter was written in English so I know only Lee told me about it.
Q. And Lee told you that that was a picture of Governor Connally?
A. He said it was an advertisement because he will be running for some kind of office.
Q. What did Lee tell you the letter said?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Was Lee pleased or displeased about the letter?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Did Lee ever discuss any other American officials apart from Governor Connally and President Kennedy when you were living in Russia?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Do you know how Lee acquired the rifle that we spoke about before that he had in Russia?
A. I do not know. I assume right now that when you become a member of this hunting group you have a permit to go and obtain a rifle somewhere. I have no idea whether you buy a rifle or they give it to you.
Q. Were they very expensive to buy?
A. I have no idea.
Q. When you and Lee were living together after you were married, did you assume that your apartment was bugged?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Why is that?
A. Well, even if you turn off all the electric appliances in the house, still this meter that is inside of the apartment, the electric meter, will be running very slowly but surely. I don't know if it has anything to do with it but we were afraid to talk. We would whisper.
Q. Did you discuss the Lee outside of the apartment that you thought it was bugged?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he think it was bugged as well?
A. Sometimes we even spoke loudly, "Hey, would you like to listen to all the conversation?", something like that.
Q. What was Lee's reaction to what he thought was the bugging of the apartment?
A. Well, it was accepted. What can you do?
Q. Why did you think they were bugging your apartment, or were all the apartments bugged, do you think?
A. I don't think all the apartments were bugged.
Q. So why were they bugging the apartment that you and Lee lived in?
A. I really don't have the answer to that question but I assume because he was a foreigner and they didn't know much about him so they want to continue to keep an eye on him and that was the only way to do it.
Q. Was that the usual practice in Minsk, in Russia?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you and Lee think you were under any other types of surveillance?
A. We assumed that we were.
Q. You assumed that you were.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever see any evidence of it?
A. No; but I heard gossips from mutual friends that sometimes there have been people assigned to follow somebody like a foreign tourist or something like that and you will never know who will be watching after you.
Q. What type of materials would Lee read during this period of time?
A. When he was in Russia?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, they have some foreign magazines that you can buy at the newsstand. I do believe it was a Life magazine then that was printed and he usually bought that. I think there was an English newspaper. He studied the Russian language and he read some Russian literature just for entertainment.
Q. What kinds of literature would it be?
A. Whatever was available at the house, whatever novel may be popular at this time.
Q. Did he read about politics at this time in novels?
A. I don't recall. Maybe historical books about Russian history.
Q. What friends of Lee's do you recall while you were there?
A. Right now none of them but if you mentioned the names I might recall.
Q. Even not specific names. Did he have many friends?
A. Well, Pavel Golovachev.
Q. Who was that?
A. When he introduced me he said he is his closest friend. He met him before he met me. He was one of the first men that he met in Minsk and he did speak English and it was good for him to practice talking with Lee.
Q. Was he a native of Minsk?
A. He was living there at the time. When you say native--
Q. Was he Russian?
A. He was born there.
Q. Do you know if he was born in Minsk?
A. I don't know.
Q. But he was living there at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. What other friends of Lee's did you meet?
A. One immigrant family from Argentina, Mr. and Mrs. Ziger and their two daughters.
Q. How did Lee know them?
A. Mr. Ziger was an engineer at the same radio factory that Lee was working at.
Q. And he was from Argentina, you say?
A. He was formerly, I think, a Polish Jew and the lived in Argentina for over 20 years, I believe. They immigrated long age and their daughters were born there and they got homesick so they asked to return to their native country. After World War II this part of Poland became part of Russia. All their relatives were in Poland and they were very lonely and they tried to go back to Argentina but the were never granted a permit.
Q. Did Lee discuss politics with him?
A. Well, by the time I met Ziger, Lee was just as bitter about living in Minsk as they were so they had lots of things in common. Of course they discussed politics.
Q. What other friends of Lee's did you meet?
A. Well, none that I remember any more.
Q. Did you remember any Cuban students who were living in Minsk?
A. Yes; I never met them personally but you can recognize the Cubans because the Russians are quite fair complexioned and they speak Spanish. You can see them in the street because the were exchange students from Cuba.
Q. Did Lee have friends among the Cuban students?
A. He might have.
Q. Did he ever speak to you about them?
A. I don't recall right now but I think he met a few of them.
Q. Do you recall a Cuban student by the name of Alfred?
A. No; what was his name?
Q. Alfred.
A. That is not a Cuban name, is it?
Q. I don't know the last name. Did he ever express his views about the Cuban students in general terms?
A. In general terms?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, he said that it is pretty cold right here, a severe Russian winter, and that they are homesick, they miss their country. The had been sent to this country to study but the were not very pleased on account of it was not as free as even in their country.
Q. Where would Lee meet these Cuban students?
A. Well, in Russia you don't have to have a special meeting place; you can just talk to people in the park, on the street, on the bench.
Q. Were any of them working at the factory he worked at or were they just students?
A. I think they were just students.
Q. So it would not be at the factory?
A. I don't know if any of them worked in the factory.
Q. Did Lee know a Marvin Kantor?
A. Who was he?
Q. He was an American student at that time living in Minsk.
A. Living in Minsk? No.
Q. Never heard the name?
A. No. I thought he was the only American there.
Q. May have been living in Minsk. Do you know Muhammad Reggab?
A. Pardon me. Would you repeat the name?
Q. Reggab, R-e-g-g-a-b. First name Muhammad. He was also a student allegedly living in Minsk at that time.
A. No.
Q. The name is familiar with you?
A. No.
Q. What hobbies did lee engage in when you were living in Minsk?
A. Mostly reading, went boating in the summertime, picnicking. That is not a hobby, just recreation.
Q. Did Lee ever discuss with you his work at the radio factory?
A. Yes he did, and he didn't like it. he had lots of complaints about it.
Q. What did he complain about it?
A. He thought he was better than his job.
Q. What did he say he could do about that?
A. I don't recall him saying anything but complaining.
Q. Did Lee ever discuss with you his being in touch with the police prior to his defection, the Russian police or the KGB, prior to his going to the American Embassy?
A. No.
Q. Did Lee discuss with you his offer to give secrets to the Russian Government?
A. No.
Q. Have you heard that it has been alleged that he offered to gove military secrets to the Russian Government?
A. Well, I read in the newspapers lots of speculations. How true that is I don't know.
Q. But he never discussed that with you?
A. No.
Q. What else did Lee tell you about his activities when he was in Japan?
A. Not much. He never talked much about his experiences in Japan. Well, he told me once, and later on I found out it was a fib, that he was shot in some kind of military activities he said.
Q. When did he tell you that?
A. I don't remember the day.
Q. Why did he tell you that? How did it come up?
A. I don't know. Probably just to show what a brave soldier he was.
Q. How did you find out it was a lie?
A. After he died and I read about it.
Q. You didn't know before that?
A. No.
Q. Did Lee mention any other people he knew in Japan besides that one girl you have told us about?
A. No.
Q. Did he talk about his friends in the Marines?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever discuss the kind of work he did in Japan with the Marines?
A. Not with me.
Q. Did Lee ever mention meeting with any Russians when he was living in Japan?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did he ever discuss Russian agents who were working in Japan?
A. no.
Q. Did Lee ever discuss the U-2 airplane with you?
A. No. Is that an American plane or Russian?
Q. Are you familiar with the U-2 which was the plane that was shot down over Russia?
A. I heard about it at the time.
Q. You heard about it at the time.
A. Was that where the American was accused of being a spy and he was captured by the Russians?
Q. Yes; and his name was Francis Gary Powers.
A. Yes. I don't know if it was when I was married to Lee, but I remember the incident. Whether it come from Lee or from the newspaper I don't remember, but I am aware of the incident.
Q. You were aware of it?
A. Yes. All the Russian citizens were talking about it.
Q. Did Lee ever talk to you about it?
A. I don't recall. Before I came to this country I thought only Americans sent spies around the world; Russians never did things like that.
Q. Are you familiar with a letter that Lee wrote to the American embassy requesting the return to him of his passport?
A. Well, the letters were composed in the English language. How many and what he wrote in them I don't know, but I knew he was sending letters to the American Embassy or to the Russian authorities to let him get out of Russia.
Q. When was the first time he told you he wanted to get out of Russia and back to the United States?
A. After we were married.
Q. Did Lee discuss with you the reaction of the Russian authorities of the U.S. authorities to the letters he was sending?
A. Of course it was a big matter for both of us and up to the date that the allowed my to leave the country, I really did not believe that it would amount to anything.
Q. Did Lee say he had been contacted by the CIA?
A. Where?
Q. When he was in Russia. Or agents of the CIA?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever discuss the CIA with you?
A. I never knew what the CIA was until they started asking me the questions. Until I came to this country I never knew what the CIA was.
Q. When was the first time you became aware of what they were.
A. I do believe after the assassination.
Q. Did he ever discuss with you American spies without using the name CIA?
A. Well, it was an incident when the doctor at the Embassy who examined me and was very kind and nice to me--
Q. What was his name?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Is that a Dr. Davidson?
A. It sounds familiar. Well, we were living here, we were in America already, and then Lee told me that this man was accused of being a spy so the Russians threw him out of the Soviet Union. To me it sounded like a ridiculous accusation; a man that nice cannot be a spy.
Q. Was that the first time Lee discussed him with you?
A. Yes.
Q. What was his reaction?
A. Russians accuse every everybody of spying against them.
Q. What did Dr. Davidson do when you met him in the Soviet Union? What were the circumstances of your seeing him?
A. Well, he gave me a physical examination and he knew that I was very worried and scared to leave the country and he kind of patted me on the shoulder and said, "Don't worry, it will be a nice life for you." It was a nice reassurance, both very human and very warm. He talked about his family.
Q. Was Lee with you during this examination?
A. No.
Q. What did he say about his family?
A. He said that his mother was of Russian descent, I think I recall that, and I found out from him that some Russian people live in the United States which I did not know before.
Q. Did he give you the names of anybody to contact in the United States?
A. I think he might have mentioned some names but I don't remember right now.
Q. Did you ever contact any of the people he mentioned?
A. No.
Q. Did Lee have any contact with Dr. Davidson apart from your physical examination?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Do you remember when you went to the American Embassy with Lee? Do you remember that event?
A. Yes.
Q. Who did you meet at the Embassy?
A. I don't remember the name. I remember the building.
Q. Would it be either Mr. Snyder or Mr. McVicker?
A. Yes; both names sound very familiar. I do not remember the faces now.
Q. Was that the first occasion you had ever met them?
A. Yes.
Q. Had you heard Lee discussing them previously?
A. I don't remember.
Mr. WOLF. For the record it should be noted that Miss Brady had just left the room for a few moments.
By Mr. WOLF:
Q. Did Lee discuss with you his prior contact with the Embassy before you and he went together to the Embassy?
A. No.
Q. Did he discuss the letters he had written to the Embassy?
A. Excuse me. I do not understand the question. Prior to our marriage?
Q. No; prior to the two of you going to the Embassy together.
A. Yes; I am sorry. I misunderstood you. He went to the Embassy first.
Q. Did he then discuss with you his trip to the embassy?
A. He went to Moscow and then he called me to come over.
Q. What did he say to you when he called?
A. Just to get a few days off from work and buy a plane ticket and fly there.
Q. Q. Did he indicate that the people at the Embassy were friendly or not friendly?
A. Well, he told me that they will be friendlier than the Russians are.
Q. Did Lee ever discuss with you his being asked to work as an American agent or as an American spy by any individual?
A. No; you mean in Russia?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Have any of the people sho you met in the Embassy at that time been in contact with you since you left Russia or with Lee?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Did Lee ever discuss them after you got to the United States?
A. No; except this doctor that we discussed during this incident about being a spy.
Q. How did it come that you were examined by the doctor?
A. Pardon me?
Q. How was it arranged for you to be examined by the doctor?
A. Well, I assumed that before you entered this country you have to have a physical that you are healthy enough, you don't have any disease, I guess.
Q. So you were told that you had to have an examination?
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't request it?
A. No.
Q. Who told you that you needed it?
A. Somebody at the Embassy.
Q. One of the people at the Embassy?
A. Yes.
Q. Did the doctor give you anything to take out of the country or did you leave anything with the doctor?
A. No; you man a message?
Q. Yes; or any physical possession.
A. No.
Mr. WOLF. It should be noted that Miss Brady has just returned to the room.
By Mr. WOLF:
Q. Apart from the one time you had your physical examination, did you meet the doctor at any other time?
A. No; whomever I met at the embassy it was only for the official visits and I didn't know who was there or how many people.
Q. After you left Russia, where did you go?
A. Straight to America through a few foreign countries.
Q. Which countries did you stop in?
A. By train we went from Minsk, I believe-anyway through Poland to Germany to Holland.
Q. Did you stop in Polan? Did you get off the train?
A. Oh, just for a few minutes. No, no, I don't think we stopped in Poland. yes, we did. I am sorry. Yes, because I remember that people over there at the station, the Polish people, they tried to exchange their money for American dollars.
Q. Did you meet anybody particularly when you stopped?
A. No.
Q. And it was only for a few minutes?
A. As far as I recall, yes.
Q. Did the train stop in Germany?
A. I do believe they had one or two stops.
Q. Were they long or short?
A. Short.
Q. Did you meet anybody on the train who you became particularly friendly with?
A. No.
Q. Did Lee?
A. No; not that I know of.
Q. Where was the final destination of the train?
A. Amsterdam.
Q. Is that where you got off the train?
A. I think so, yes.
Q. What did you do then?
A. We spent a day and a night in Amsterdam. I don't know whose house, a rented house or a room or something. It was not a hotel, it was a house.
Q. Who found it?
A. I don't know. Lee made all the arrangements.
Q. When did he make the arrangements?
A. I assume that the Embassy gave him the accommodations that he can rent a room inexpensively.
Q. When you were still in Russia?
A. I assumed that.
Q. But when you first got off the train in Amsterdam, what was the first thing that Lee did?
A. I don't know. I guess picked up the suitcases.
Q. Did you get into a bus or a cab and go directly to an apartment or did you walk around the city?
A. I don't remember if we took the taxi and went to this house and then walked or whether we walked around and then went to the house. I don't remember.
Q. Was it a house or an apartment that you stayed in when you were in Amsterdam?
A. It looks like it is a boardinghouse to me right new in my memory. It was not a motel or a hotel.
Q. It was not? A It looks like it is a private roominghouse.
Q. Did you meet anybody at the apartment?
A. No.
Q. When Lee went downstairs was there a person at a desk?
A. There was no desk as far as I remember.
Q. No desk?
A. I don't remember. I do not speak English.
Q. Did Lee meet anybody at a desk downstairs?
A. I don't know. I was too preoccupied carrying the baby and worrying. I was very tired.
Q. Who did you meet when you were in Amsterdam?
A. Nobody that I recall.
Q. Did you and Lee spend the entire time together?
A. Maybe it was after hours or it was a Sunday, I don't recall. All the shops were closed so we just window-shopped a little bit.
Q. Do you remember if Lee paid for the apartment you stayed at before or after you left Amsterdam?
A. I think the Embassy have him a loan of some money and I assume with that he paid for the room.
Q. Did you meet the person who ran the roominghouse?
A. No; I saw some lady that brought dinner and that is all.
Q. You ate dinner downstairs in a big room?
A. No; I think it was in the room we were renting.
Q. And they brought dinner into your room?
A. Yes.
Q. What was Lee's reaction or his attitude when he reached Amsterdam? Was he happy to be out of Russia?
A. Yes; he said that is the free world. That was his attitude.
Q. Returning to the rifle for a moment, when you were window-shopping with Lee in Amsterdam, for example, did you pass any stores that had guns or rifles in the window?
A. If we passed, I never paid any attention.
Q. Would Lee ever make comments if you were walking around Minsk, when he walked to stores in Minsk-
A. They don't have stores in Russia where they sell guns. I don't know where he purchased them.
Q. When he was in Minsk and Amsterdam, for example, did he ever discuss his rifle with you if you did not bring up the subject?
A. What was there to discuss?
Q. Would he talk about guns generally?
A. I don't like guns so what am I going to talk about guns? What do I know about guns? Nothing.
Q. When you were in Minsk did you ever see ammunition, bullets in your apartment?
A. If I have, I don't recall right now. If you have a gun, you are probably supposed to have ammunition.
Q. Were you afraid of the gun, of guns?
A. Well, I disliked them.
Q. Would you be afraid of ammunition if it was left near the gun?
A. Well, I don't know what to expect from it. Could it explode or not be itself?
Q. But in Minsk you don't recall if you ever say any ammunition?
A. I don't recall.
Q. How much of all your possessions when you were in Minsk did Lee bring with you on the trip to Amsterdam? Did you have to leave a lot of things in Russia?
A. We don't have very much to leave behind. We just took the simple clothing that we brought back, som personal things, maybe a few books.
Q. Who did the packing? Did you both pack?
A. I assume we did but Lee did most of the packing.
Q. Did Lee purchase the tickets for the boat when you were in Amsterdam?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know, were those arrangements for the boat make in advance by the embassy as well?
A. I assume it was.
Q. When you left Minsk did Lee tell you what part of America you were going to?
A. He said to Texas.
Q. Why were you going to Texas, did Lee tell you?
A. Because Lee had a brother who lived in Fort Worth.
Q. And he stated that was the reason he was going to go to Texas?
A. Yes.
Q. On the boat over to New York do you recall if Lee was friendly with anybody in particular?
A. No.
Q. Do you recall meeting anybody in particular?
A. The only person that I recall was the steward at the dining table. We were assigned to a certain dining table and only one gentleman that I talked to.
Q. Did you discuss anything in particular with him?
A. The gentleman spoke a few Russian words to me like help and just how are you and things like that and I asked through Lee how come he spoke Russian and he said that his father was Russian and mother is from Holland and from childhood he remembered a few phrases and that is all.
Q. Did Lee when he was discussing Texas with you tell you that he wanted to live there permanently?
A. Well, I don't remember temporary or permanently. He was hoping to get a job here.
Q. Did he ever discuss any other parts of the United States where he would like to live?
A. No; he said he liked New Orleans because his aunt lived there.
Q. Had he been in New Orleans?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he tell you about New Orleans?
A. That it is a lovely city and it is a very interesting city to live in.
Q. Did he say that he had friends there?
A. No; he said he has relatives there.
Q. Relatives. And he also had relatives in Fort Worth?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he speak about friends he had in Fort Worth.
A. No.
Q. When you first got to Fort Worth did Lee introduce you to his brother?
A. Yes; they met us at the airport.
Q. And you lived with his brother for a little while?
A. Yes.
Q. Who else did Lee introduce you to when you first got to Fort Worth?
A. A few Russian immigrants.
Q. What were their names?
A. Mr. Gregory was the first one that I recall meeting.
Q. Is that Paul Gregory?
A. Yes-no, no, no. I think Paul is his son. It was the elderly Mr. Gregory. I don't remember his name.
Q. Were these people Lee knew before he had gove to Russia?
A. I don't think so. I do believe that he went to the library to get a few Russian books that they have in the library for me to read and somebody mentioned Mr. Gregory's name and he got in contact with him.
Q. Who got in touch with Mr. Gregory, Lee?
A. Well, I really don't remember who contacted whom. Anyway he came home and he told me that he met a Russian gentleman.
Q. Did Lee introduce you to any of his previous friends from Fort Worth or from Dallas?
A. No.
Q. Who else beside Mr. Gregory do you remember who was in the Russian community?
A. Well, through him I have been introduced to other immigrants here. I met Galya Clark.
Q. Any others?
A. Well, Anna Miller and George de Mohrenschildt.
Q. Did you meet them at parties or did Lee bring them over to your house or what were the occasions that you would meet these people?
A. Well, they came to our house and then we had been invited to their homes for a day or for dinner.
Q. Apart from these people in the Russian community, were you ever invited to anybody else's house or did you have other people over to your house who were friends of yours?
A. I don't remember any.
Q. When Lee obtained this job did he discuss the people he worked with?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever meet anybody he worked with?
A. No.
Q. Did Lee read any books still at this time? You said that was his hobby in Minsk.
A. Yes, he did. he went to the library quite often and would bring some books and he would read them.
Q. Were they in English or in Russian?
A. In English.
Q. Did he make an effort for you to obtain any book to read?
A. Yes, I read every book that was in the library that was in the Russian language.
Q. Were there many?
A. No; there were not many. Can we have a break please?
Mr. WOLF. Sure. Any time you like. (Whereupon, at 11:05 a.m., a recess was taken until 11:28 a.m.)
Mr. WOLF. We will now go back on the record. It is now approximately 11:30. Attorney Jim McDonald is in the room. We also have present from the National Archives, Mr. James M. Leahy who has brought some exhibits with him today that are in the custody of the National Archives.
By Mr. WOLF:
Q. Mrs. Porter, I would like to show you five different cameras at the current time and ask you if you recognize any of them and if so which ones.
A. I don't recognize any of them.
Q. You don't recognize any of them?
A. No.
Q. You have never seen cameras that looked like that previously?
A. Well, I am not an expert on cameral at all so I cannot say that, that I recognize any of them.
Q. Well, have you ever used a camera similar to any of those?
A. Well, I used a camera once in my life when I took a picture of Lee but I don't know what the camera looks like.
Q. You don't remember what the camera looks like?
A. No.
Q. Have you any memory?
A. I have been told what button to push and that is all I recall.
Q. Did you ever take any other pictures?
A. Yes; on a Polaroid camera but I have to read the directions on how to use it from time to time.
Q. Does a Polaroid camera looklike the ones you see before you?
A. My own is nothing like that.
Q. Nothing like that?
A. No.
Q. Do you know if you have ever seen cameras like that before, not if you have used them but if you have ever seen them before?
A. Well, I have seen some people wear a camera like that around their neck, a tourist.
Q. You can open that if you want to and see what it looks like.
A. No; it would not do me any gook to see it.
Q. Have you ever seen a camera like that before?
A. I would be silly to say I never saw a camera like that. I might have seen it but I don't recall. I cannot identify any of those cameras and say that I used them or seen them before.
Q. This camera here, does this look at all familiar to you?
A. No.
Q. Which is identified as Commission exhibit No. 750.
A. No; I don't recall.
Q. You don't recall?
A. No.
Q. This camera here which is identified as Commission exhibit No. 136, does that look at all familiar to you?
A. No.
Q. This camera here, which is FBI exhibit D-145, does that look familiar to you?
A. No; none of those cameras look familiar.
Q. This exhibit here which is identified as FBI exhibit D-80, dows this look familiar to you?
A. No.
Q. And this camera here which is a Minox 1 :3.5 F-15 millimeter with the serial No. S2339303, does this look familiar to you?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever see any of the cameras before you in the possession of Lee?
A. I do not recall now at all the camera we used to have. The camera could be here but I would not recognize it at all.
Q. You just don't remember?
A. No.
Q. If I show you this camera which was Commission exhibit No. 750 and raise the top part so you can see there is a viewfinder and ask you just to look at the camera, would that refresh your recollection that that was the camera you allegedly took the photographs of Lee with?
A. Well, I honestly do not remember if I look straight at the object or look down.
Q. But seeing the camera today you still have no memory of what the camera looked like?
A. No; I am sorry I am unprofessional about it.
Q. Whatever your memory is, that is what we want to find out.
A. I definitely never saw that before.
Q. Which are you referring to?
A. these two little ones.
Q. the record should note that she is referring to the Minox camera which is D-80 and the other Minox camera which is identified on the record as Minox 1 :3.5.
A. And by that I man in my possession or Lee's possession.
Q. You never saw a camera like that?
A. No.
Mr. WOLF. I would like to thank the national Archives for their cooperation in bringing the cameras here today. We are done with them, and they may be returned to the Archives.
By Mr. WOLF:
Q. Was Lee interested in photography?
A. Didn't he have a job once to do something with photography?
Q. Did he discuss it with you?
A. His job? No.
Q. When he was in Russia did he ever take pictures?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what the camera looked like?
A. No.
Q. Were they general tourist type pictures or were they specific pictures?
A. He would take pictures of me or a view around the city with our friends.
Q. Did he have one camera or more than one?
A. I think only one. I do not recall.
Q. And the camera that he had in Russia, is that the same camera he used to take pictures when he got to the United States?
A. I really don't remember. I assume it was the same one.
Q. Returning to your trip from Russia to Amsterdam, was Lee gone for a long period of time by himself when you were on the train? Would he leave your compartment or seat and talk to other people for a long period of time?f
A. No.
Q. Returning for a few moments to questions about your life in Russia, did you date other men before Lee?
A. Of course I had.
Q. Did any others propose marriage to you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you consider them as serious proposals of marriage?
A. Will, it is hard to justify right now at 19 how serious you can be.
Q. Well, you decided to marry Lee within a month or a little over a month after meeting him.
A. Yes.
Q. How did you treat t